Re: PIE vestuary

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:

>
> > > Latin pannus "fabric", Greek pe:nos "cloth", OE fana
> > > "banner" < PIE *peH2n-?

 > >

> > I think this etymology is incorrect for the Latin word for two main
> > reasons:
> > 1) We should expect *pa:nus instead of pannus.
>
> Dialectal (what I call "Sabino-Latin"); cf. <cuppa> beside <cu:pa>; <Juppiter> (orig. voc.) beside Romano-Latin <Die:spiter>, etc.
>

That's OK, but we've still got no *pa:nus here.

> > 2) The Latin word also means 'rag'.
>
> What happens to worn-out fabrics? Riches to rags!
>

I think this would be the *primary* meaning. Rags are tore out from cloth, hence the semantic link (e.g. Spanish colgajo 'shred, strip' from colgar 'to hang').

3) Last, but not least, the link between the Greek and Germanic words is also dubious.

> > Assuming this was the original meaning, IMHO this would be a
> > Paleo-Italic (Ligurian?) loanword *panno- corresponding to Italic *pend-
> > > Latin pendeo: 'to hang', pondus 'weigh', Celtic *Fondo- 'stone', with
> > -nd- > -nn- and -o- > -a-. For the semantic connection, see Spanish
> > colgajo 'strip, shred' from colgar 'to hang'.
>
> Ligurian would not yield *panno- from *pendo-.
>

It actually would be *pondo- > *panno-.

> > NB: IMHO "Italo-Celtic" reflects an Italic substrate/adstrate in Celtic,
> > and not a taxon node.
>
> Why create confusion by using an established term in an idiosyncratic way?
>

More than "using" it, I'm *explaining* it. That is, I see as a substrate or adstrate what other people think it's a genetic relationship.