Re: PIE vestuary

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Tavi" <oalexandre@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@> wrote:
> >
> > And the word for "fabric, cloth":
> >
> > Latin pannus "fabric", Greek pe:nos "cloth", OE fana
> "banner" < PIE *peH2n-?
> >
> I think this etymology is incorrect for the Latin word for two main
> reasons:
> 1) We should expect *pa:nus instead of pannus.

Dialectal (what I call "Sabino-Latin"); cf. <cuppa> beside <cu:pa>; <Juppiter> (orig. voc.) beside Romano-Latin <Die:spiter>, etc.

> 2) The Latin word also means 'rag'.

What happens to worn-out fabrics? Riches to rags!

> Assuming this was the original meaning, IMHO this would be a
> Paleo-Italic (Ligurian?) loanword *panno- corresponding to Italic *pend-
> > Latin pendeo: 'to hang', pondus 'weigh', Celtic *Fondo- 'stone', with
> -nd- > -nn- and -o- > -a-. For the semantic connection, see Spanish
> colgajo 'strip, shred' from colgar 'to hang'.

Ligurian would not yield *panno- from *pendo-.

> However, derivation from IE *(s)pend- 'to spin' (alternatively, De Vaan
> proposes also *ped- 'to fall') seems dubious to me. Nikolayev prefers a
> link to Balto-Slavic *(s)pend- 'to pull, to stretch':
> http://newstar.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/ie/\
> piet&text_number=++2602&root=config
>
> Interestingly, there's a Romance verb *(a)panna:re with the homonymous
> meanings 'to get, to steal' > Spanish apañar (borrowed into
> Portuguese apanhar), Gascon panar and 'to attire; to season (food); to
> fix' > Spanish apañar. The semantic shift 'to tear (into rags)' > 'to
> get, to steal' is parallel to the one of *rauba:re 'to steal'
> (Portuguese roubar, Spanish robar), a loanword from Germanic *raubo:n-
> 'to tear' related to *raupa 'cloth' (Portuguese roupa, Spanish ropa,
> Catalan roba, French robe), from Germanic *raupjan- 'to tear'.

Cf. colloquial English <rip off>.

> NB: IMHO "Italo-Celtic" reflects an Italic substrate/adstrate in Celtic,
> and not a taxon node.

Why create confusion by using an established term in an idiosyncratic way?

DGK