From: Brian M. Scott
Message: 50741
Date: 2007-12-07
> Arnaud Fournet :
> Ryan
> I gave you my sources for Arabic data :
> A. de Biberstein Kazimirski, Dictionaire Arabe-Français,
> 2004, Al-bouraq, tomes 1 et 2,
> ?afil : tome 1 page 41
> Hafil : tome 1 page 461
> rafal : tome 1 page 901
> falak : tome 2 page 633
> So Ryan,
> I suggest you buy a reliable tool for the study of Arabic,
> So that you avoid believing I am making "adjustments",
> when the problem is you're working with obviously
> inadequate sources that lack half the existing words.
> Arnaud Fournet.
>> ==============
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Patrick Ryan
>> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:19 PM
>> Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was:
> swallow vs. nightingale)
>>
>>
>>
>> Mr. Fournet:
>>
>> The meaning, according to Lane's for Hafala is 'collect'.
>>
>> Again, an example to establish the meaning of 'full' would be
> appreciated.
>>
>> Or is this an "adjustment" from Fournet?
>>
>>
>> Patrick Ryan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Patrick Ryan
>> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 12:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs. nightingale)
>>
>>
>>
>> Mr. Fournet:
>>
>> You may want to look at this website:
> http://www.studyquran.co.uk/LLhome.htm
>>
>> Lanes (in 8 volumes) has ?afala meaning roughly 'be hidden in'.
>>
>> Could you quote the example that Kazimirski uses to establish
> the meaning 'full'?
>>
>>
>> Patrick Ryan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: fournet.arnaud
>> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 2:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs.
> nighingale)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Patrick Ryan
>> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 3:01 AM
>> Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re: Re: Re: [tied] A
>> Anser (was: swallow vs. nighingale)
>>
>>
>>
>> Mr. Fournet:
>>
>> CORRECTION: falTaHa
>>
>> Patrick Ryan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Patrick Ryan
>> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 6:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs.
> nighingale)
>>
>>
>>
>> Mr. Fournet:
>>
>> An additional example of Arabic f-l corresponding to PIE
> p-l is Arabic faltaHa, flatten : PIE pla:t-, wide and flat.
>>
>> flat is PHA; full is PHO; split is PHFE.
>>
>> Patrick Ryan
>>
>> Mr. Fournet:
>>
>> I can find no trace of ?a:fi:l in my references; is it in
> Lane's?
>>
>> All that I can find is ?afala, 'set, disappear'; obviously
> an unrelated root.
>>
>> As for Hafl, are you notating the Arabic letter as H that
> appears usually as dotted h?
>>
>> One of the difficulties of comparisons with Arabic is that
> the originally different vowels create no differences in correspondence.
>>
>> The forms behind PIE *1. pel(H)-, 'fill', and 1.
> (s)p(h)el-, 'split', both correspond to Arabic f-l.
>>
>> Patrick Ryan
>> ===========
>> A.F (new dec 03)
>> We were discussing the root *p_l "full, abundant",
>> not the words meaning flat or split.
>> Arabic reflexes include :
>> ?afil, Hafil, "full"
>> also possible : rafal : let a well get full before drawing
> water
>> unclear : falak : to be fully grown (as of female breasts)
>>
>> Kazimirsky : actually A. de Biberstein Kazimirski is a
> French diplomat on translated Lisan and Qamus into French. Published 1860.
>> It is the must-have when you work on the oldest layer of
> Arabic.
>> I suppose you can buy one on www.albouraq.com
>> I don't know what or who Lane is.
>>
>> H is unvoiced Pharyngeal spirant : dotted h in Arabica
> transcription.
>>
>> Vowels from Proto-Sapiens can only be retrieved in
> languages that make no use of vocalic apophony. For that reason, PIE
> and PAA are useless.
>> This is why Chinese and its close relatives are valuable :
> they have no apophony and come down in a linear unchanged fashion from
> Proto-Sapiens.
>> But the problem with (macro-)Chinese is the syllabic "crunch".
>> One branch has the vocalic scheme, the other has the
> consonantal skeleton.
>>
>> Arnaud
>> ================