Re: Anser (was: swallow vs. nightingale)

Arnaud Fournet :

Ryan
I gave you my sources for Arabic data :
A. de Biberstein Kazimirski, Dictionaire Arabe-Français,
2004, Al-bouraq, tomes 1 et 2,
?afil : tome 1 page 41
Hafil : tome 1 page 461
rafal : tome 1 page 901
falak : tome 2 page 633

So Ryan,
I suggest you buy a reliable tool for the study of Arabic,
So that you avoid believing I am making "adjustments",
when the problem is you're working with obviously
inadequate sources that lack half the existing words.

Arnaud Fournet.

> ==============
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patrick Ryan
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:19 PM
> Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was:

swallow vs. nightingale)

>
>
>
> Mr. Fournet:
>
> The meaning, according to Lane's for Hafala is 'collect'.
>
> Again, an example to establish the meaning of 'full' would be

appreciated.

>
> Or is this an "adjustment" from Fournet?
>
>
> Patrick Ryan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patrick Ryan
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 12:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs. nightingale)
>
>
>
> Mr. Fournet:
>
> You may want to look at this website:

http://www.studyquran.co.uk/LLhome.htm

>
> Lanes (in 8 volumes) has ?afala meaning roughly 'be hidden in'.
>
> Could you quote the example that Kazimirski uses to establish

the meaning 'full'?

>
>
> Patrick Ryan
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: fournet.arnaud
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 2:24 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs.

nighingale)

>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patrick Ryan
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 3:01 AM
> Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re: Re: Re: [tied] A
> Anser (was: swallow vs. nighingale)
>
>
>
> Mr. Fournet:
>
> CORRECTION: falTaHa
>
> Patrick Ryan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patrick Ryan
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 6:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs.

nighingale)

>
>
>
> Mr. Fournet:
>
> An additional example of Arabic f-l corresponding to PIE

p-l is Arabic faltaHa, flatten : PIE pla:t-, wide and flat.

>
> flat is PHA; full is PHO; split is PHFE.
>
> Patrick Ryan
>
> Mr. Fournet:
>
> I can find no trace of ?a:fi:l in my references; is it in

Lane's?

>
> All that I can find is ?afala, 'set, disappear'; obviously

an unrelated root.

>
> As for Hafl, are you notating the Arabic letter as H that

appears usually as dotted h?

>
> One of the difficulties of comparisons with Arabic is that

the originally different vowels create no differences in correspondence.

>
> The forms behind PIE *1. pel(H)-, 'fill', and 1.

(s)p(h)el-, 'split', both correspond to Arabic f-l.

>
> Patrick Ryan
> ===========
> A.F (new dec 03)
> We were discussing the root *p_l "full, abundant",
> not the words meaning flat or split.
> Arabic reflexes include :
> ?afil, Hafil, "full"
> also possible : rafal : let a well get full before drawing

water

> unclear : falak : to be fully grown (as of female breasts)
>
> Kazimirsky : actually A. de Biberstein Kazimirski is a

French diplomat on translated Lisan and Qamus into French. Published 1860.

> It is the must-have when you work on the oldest layer of

Arabic.

> I suppose you can buy one on www.albouraq.com
> I don't know what or who Lane is.
>
> H is unvoiced Pharyngeal spirant : dotted h in Arabica

transcription.

>
> Vowels from Proto-Sapiens can only be retrieved in

languages that make no use of vocalic apophony. For that reason, PIE
and PAA are useless.

> This is why Chinese and its close relatives are valuable :

they have no apophony and come down in a linear unchanged fashion from
Proto-Sapiens.

> But the problem with (macro-)Chinese is the syllabic "crunch".
> One branch has the vocalic scheme, the other has the

consonantal skeleton.

>
> Arnaud
> ================