Re: Anser (was: swallow vs. nightingale)

From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 50681
Date: 2007-12-03

Mr. Fournet:
 
The meaning, according to Lane's for rafala is ''make (overly) long'.
 
An example from Kazimirski?
 
 
Patrck Ryan
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs. nightingale)

Mr. Fournet:
 
The meaning, according to Lane's for Hafala is 'collect'.
 
Again, an example to establish the meaning of 'full' would be appreciated.
 
Or is this an "adjustment" from Fournet?
 
 
Patrick Ryan
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs. nightingale)

Mr. Fournet:
 
You may want to look at this website: http://www.studyqur an.co.uk/ LLhome.htm
 
Lanes (in 8 volumes) has ?afala meaning roughly 'be hidden in'.
 
Could you quote the example that Kazimirski uses to establish the meaning 'full'?
 
 
Patrick Ryan
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs. nighingale)

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 3:01 AM
Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re: Re: Re: [tied] A
Anser (was: swallow vs. nighingale)

Mr. Fournet:
 
CORRECTION: falTaHa
 
Patrick Ryan
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Anser (was: swallow vs. nighingale)

Mr. Fournet:
 
An additional example of Arabic f-l corresponding to PIE p-l is Arabic faltaHa, flatten : PIE pla:t-, wide and flat.
 
flat is PHA; full is PHO; split is PHFE.
 
Patrick Ryan
 
Mr. Fournet:
 
I can find no trace of ?a:fi:l in my references; is it in Lane's?
 
All that I can find is ?afala, 'set, disappear'; obviously an unrelated root.
 
As for Hafl, are you notating the Arabic letter as H that appears usually as dotted h?
 
One of the difficulties of comparisons with Arabic is that the originally different vowels create no differences in correspondence.
 
The forms behind PIE *1. pel(H)-, 'fill', and 1. (s)p(h)el-, 'split',  both correspond to Arabic f-l.
 
Patrick Ryan
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A.F (new dec 03)
We were discussing the root *p_l "full, abundant",
not the words meaning flat or split.
Arabic reflexes include :
?afil, Hafil, "full"
also possible : rafal : let a well get full before drawing water
unclear : falak : to be fully grown (as of female breasts)
 
Kazimirsky : actually A. de Biberstein Kazimirski is a French diplomat on translated Lisan and Qamus into French. Published 1860.
It is the must-have when you work on the oldest layer of Arabic.
I suppose you can buy one on www.albouraq. com
I don't know what or who Lane is.
 
H is unvoiced Pharyngeal spirant : dotted h in Arabica transcription.
 
Vowels from Proto-Sapiens can only be retrieved in languages that make no use of vocalic apophony. For that reason, PIE and PAA are useless.
This is why Chinese and its close relatives are valuable : they have no apophony and come down in a linear unchanged fashion from Proto-Sapiens.
But the problem with (macro-)Chinese is the syllabic "crunch".
One branch has the vocalic scheme, the other has the consonantal skeleton.
 
Arnaud
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