Re: [tied] More nonsense: Is English /d/ truely voiced?

At 6:32:36 PM on Thursday, February 20, 2003, Glen Gordon
wrote:

> A link to my own university can clear this up:

http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/linguistics/russell/138/sec3/timing.htm

> It states: "Voiced stops in French are typically fully
> voiced. English voiced stops are often fully voiced
> between vowels, but usually only partially voiced (and
> sometimes even voiceless unaspirated)."

> So, yes, English voiced stops are _voiced_, unless you're
> talking about seldom occasions.

That's a somewhat inaccurate paraphrase of the quoted
comment. In any case, here's a fuller description:

Ladefoged & Maddieson, p.50:

It is well known that in some languages, English being a
familiar example, the vocal folds may not vibrate
throughout the closure for a voiced stop. Even when
surrounded by other voiced sounds, such as vowels, the
vocal fold vibration often ceases shortly after the
closure is made and only resumes shortly after the closure
is released. Most English speakers appear to leave the
vocal folds in a constant position throughout such a
sequence, but passive devoicing occurs as the
supralaryngeal pressure builds up behind the oral closure.

> All I know is that, as a native speaker of English, I
> honestly can't think of any examples of a voiceless /d/
> except perhaps at the end of a word, as in "skid".
> Otherwise, I certainly voice English /d/.

(A native speaker of English who uses 'seldom' as an
adjective?!)

Brian