Re: Pali Day by Day G033 - The New Pali Course Part II - Ex 12

Dear Florent,

It is quite possible that both CSCD and Buddhadatta are on wrong track, for
different reasons. Such things happen and I have come across many such,
especially when commenting on textual problems of Dhammapada Commentary in
an edition/ translation of that text (published by OUP in 1987 and since
reprinted, wholly as a paperback, and translation and introduction only as a
text of the Oxford World Classics series); also in the course of several
other efforts, during my career as an academic. Eminent scholar though he
is, Buddhadatta in this instance has apparently overlooked the metre. Metre
requires a reading like "mahaakaru.nayaa". The -aa at the end of it shows
that the next word can be 'apaha.ta--' and not necessarily 'paha.ta'.
(Manuscripts don't punctuate; so they cannot write "-karu.nayaa'paha.ta" as
we can do.) It is easy to make sense of 'apaha.ta' in this context ( being
PP from apaharati: take away, remove, etc. equivalent to Skt 'apah.rta').
The result is we have an eminently suitable sense, the kind of poetical
conception that authors of 'pakara.nas' like this work loved to indulge in:
mercy occupies the whole heart and so there is no space (avakaasa) for
greed. I am satisfied with this result.


Mahinda

On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:07 AM, flrobert2000 <flrobert2000@...> wrote:

> Dear Palihawadana and Yong Peng,
>
> Thank you very much for your explanations and attempts to translate
> these verses. How do you explain though that the CSCD has "Duura.m
> jagaama viya tassa bhavatthu ta.nhaa". Do you think it is a mistake
> and are there many such mistakes in the CSCD?
>
> Moreover Buddhadatta translates paha.taavakaasaa by "obstructed;
> being not given a place. adj." (see p89). How would you explain that?
>
> I will try to translate the preceding lines. It might give us some
> clarifications on the meaning.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Florent
>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Mahinda
> Palihawadana" <mahipal6@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Yong,
> > Thanks.
> > The order of words you give is that of English. It would of
> course be
> > different by the Pali order. In Pali we never begin a sentence
> with a
> > particle like 'viya'.
> > No problem with mahaa. What is important is "karu.nayaa'paha.ta".
> It has to
> > be thus by virtue of the Vasantatilakaa metre. (LLSLSSSLSSLSLL
> where L
> > stands for long syllable and S for short.You can see that the 8th
> syllable
> > has to be long.)
> >
> > The 'poetic idea' here is that compassion so filled his heart
> that there
> > was no space (avakaasa) in it for feelings of greed - i.e.,
> compassion
> > totally banished (apaha.ta) greed.
> >
> > Sorry about the typing errors in my hurriedly composed second post.
> >
> > Mahinda
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Ong Yong Peng <palismith@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Mahinda and Florent,
> > >
> > > Mahinda, thanks for your explanation, particularly on Pali metre,
> > > which I am not familiar with. However, just to point out, 'mahaa-
> '
> > > was in the original question.
> > >
> > > "Citte mahaakaru.nayaa c
> > > Duura.m jagaama viya tassa hi vatthuta.nhaa."
> > >
> > > I would rewrite in prose as (again, without considering the
> preceding
> > > text):
> > >
> > > "Viya tassa vatthuta.nhaa citte mahaakaru.naaya paha.taavakaasaa
> hi
> > > duura.m jagaama."
> > > "Just as his desire for wealth, obstructed by the great
> compassion of
> > > the heart, has indeed gone far."
> > >
> > > Florent, we can still look at the preceding text if you want to.
> > >
> > > metta,
> > > Yong Peng.
> > >
> > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com> <Pali%
> 40yahoogroups.com>, Mahinda
> Palihawadana
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Going by what you have quoted from the text book, it looks as if
> the
> > > prose order of the words in this stanza is: "tassa vatthu-
> ta.nhaa hi
> > > citte mahaa-karu.nayaa apaha.ta-avakaasaa duura.m jagaama viya".
> This
> > > could (literally) mean: "His greed for wealth (vatthu) was as if
> it
> > > had gone far (away), space (avakaassa) (for it) having been
> taken away
> > > (denied) by the great compassion of the heart."
> > >
> > > The correct punctuation would
> be "mahaakaru.nayaa'paha.taavakaasaa..."
> > > apahat.a is PP from apaharati: take away. Literally 'taken away'
> but
> > > actually, 'denied'. 'vatthu' means both 'field' and 'wealth'. The
> > > particle 'hi' is more or less a gap-filler and can be left
> > > untranslated. (Or, it can be translated as 'indeed', if one so
> wishes.)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


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