Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo,

I've added some more comments and passages which I hope will be of
some interest.

> Thanks for the more info... about using the word sphere, I'm
> taking into account all the commentaries and Thai MCU
> explanation, where the "cause", or "hetu" as the Thai
> translates it, is explained at some length, ending with the
> following clause:
>
> "dte nai tii nii maay tuung hetu kuh upanissaya heng kaan
> banlu khunviset nan."
>
> My translation here, for those who don't speak Thai:
>
> "But herein, it refers to the root cause, which is the
> upanissaya (prior supporting conditions) in regards to the
> attainment of that special goodness."

This sounds similar to the following passage from the .tiikaa for AN
6.7.7:

Atha vaa sati aayataneti tassa tassa visesaadhigamassa
upanissayasa"nkhaate kaara.ne satiiti evamettha attho da.t.thabbo.
Mp-.t 3.143

My translation:

Alternatively, in "whenever there is a cause", the meaning can be seen
here as: when there is a cause, called 'strong-dependence', for the
attainment of this or that special distinction.

[I think this shows the correlation between 'tatra tatreva' and 'sati
sati'.]

> So, I'm trying to keep to what I thought was a fairly
> literal translation of aayatana (though I may be misled)
> while still given the idea of the presence of the
> prerequisite upanissaya. This is my defence/rejoinder :)

The word 'aayatana' is given several meanings in passages such as the
one found at Vism XV.5. I'm not sure which meaning 'sphere' belongs
to, even though that is a word sometimes used to translate 'aayatana'
and is also included in the PED. For 'sphere', I think of Pali words
like 'gocara' and 'visaya' and I really wonder if it's an appropriate
translation for aayatana's sense of 'cause'. I'm aware that you're not
alone in choosing 'sphere' or one like it such as 'range' chosen by
F.L. Woodward in: whatever be his range. (GS i 233) and E.M. Hare in:
whatever the range may be. (GS iv 283). Both are translations of 'sati
sati aayatane'.

> Second, in regards to this still lingering idea of sati
> translated as mindfulness, there is a curious anomaly in the
> Thai explanation, where it explains "sati sati aayatane" as
> "mua mii hetu". The exact passage:
>
> " 'mua mii hetu' bleh jaak paalii waa 'sati sati aayatane'
> (mua mii hetu heng sati) ..."
>
> The interesting part here is the part in parentheses. Why
> did they leave the word 'sati' there if it is a relative
> correlative with tatra tatreva? And why only in brackets?
> Funny that.

I have nothing to say on this as I'm among those who don't read or
speak Thai.

> About tatra tatreva, I suppose a more literal translation
> could be sought, but the distinction part seems clear
> enough: in this or any (tatreva) distinction. I thought
> "here or anywhere" captured the idea without introducing a
> word that isn't there, but maybe I'm missing the point...

I find the translations of 'tatra tatreva' as 'here and there (or
anywhere', 'this and/or that', or 'in every case' rather vague as they
don't tell you exactly what is meant or what the referrents are and
without the help of the commentary it's hard to guess. Interestingly,
the .tiikaa has: 'tasmi.m tasmi.m sacchikaatabbe visese' -- for this
or that distinction to be realised.

I have copied various translations of similar passages with "tatra
tatreva sakkhibhabbata.m . . . sati sati aayatane" but with different
forms of the verb: paapu.nissasi, paapu.naati, abhabbo... paapu.nitu.m
as follows for comparison and beneath these I have pasted the first
paragraph of the .tiikaa on AN 6.7.7 which explains what the causes
are.

If there be any aayatana, then he attains the ability of testifying...
-- Expositor, p. 186, tr. P.M. Tin

He acquires the ability to be a witness of it... whenever there is an
occasion for it. -- Vism XV.5, tr. ~Naa.namoli

--you will achieve what may be realised here and there so long as
there is the objective. -- MLS ii 173, tr. Horner

--he attains the power to do so, whatever be his range. GS i 233, tr.
Woodward

--he acquires the ability of an eyewitness in every case, whatever the
range may be. -- GS iv 283, tr. Hare

he cannot become this and that, so as to be bound personally to
attain, given the opportunity. -- GS iii 299, tr. Hare

a monk is unable here or anywhere to attain realisation with his own
eyes, though it be within his sphere. -- tr. Yuttadhammo

The .tiikaa passage:

71-74. Sattame tasmi.m tasmi.m viseseti tasmi.m tasmi.m sacchikaatabbe
visese. Sakkhibhaavaaya paccakkhakaaritaaya bhabbo sakkhibhabbo, tassa
bhaavo sakkhibhabbataa. Ta.m sakkhibhabbata.m. Sati sati-aayataneti
sati satikaa ra.ne. Ki~ncettha kaara.na.m? Abhi~n~naa vaa
abhi~n~naapaadakajjhaana.m vaa, avasaane pana cha.t.thaabhi~n~naaya
arahatta.m vaa kaara.na.m, arahattassa vipassanaa vaati veditabba.m.
Ya~nhi ta.m tatra tatra sakkhibhabbataasa"nkhaata.m iddhividhapa
ccanubhavanaadi, tassa abhi~n~naa kaara.na.m. Atha
iddhividhapaccanubhavanaadi abhi~n~naa, eva.m sati
abhi~n~naapaadakajjhaana.m kaara.na.m. Arahattampi"kudaassu
naamaaha.m tadaayatana.m upasampajja viharissaamii"ti anuttaresu
vimokkhesu piha.m upa.t.thapetvaa cha.t.thaabhi~n~na.m nibbattentassa
kaara.na.m. Ida~nca sabbasaadhaara.na.m na hoti, saadhaara.navasena
pana arahattassa vipassanaa kaara.na.m. Atha vaa sati aayataneti tassa
tassa visesaadhigamassa upanissayasa"nkhaate kaara.ne satiiti
evamettha attho da.t.thabbo. -- Mp-.t 3.143

Best wishes,
Jim