Dear Robert,

R:

> Dear Venerable Dhammanando,
> You certainly know far more about Pali grammar than me, but I still
> wonder about this.
> Does the word dukkhama apply only to painful feeling or can it have
> a wider meaning at times?

Dh:
In the Pa.tisambhidaamagga-ga.n.thipadatthava.n.nanaa the 'du-'
in dukkhamaana.m is understood to be du in the sense of kicchena
('with difficulty'):

Dukkhamaanan' ti kicchena khamitabbaana.m atisiitaadiina.m
naama.m

"'Of things hard to endure' is a name for those things endured
with difficulty, beginning with extreme cold."

The allusion is to the list given in the Sabbaasava Sutta (MN 2)
of aasavas to be abandoned by endurance. There are no pleasant
things in this list. Extending the list of things to be endured
to include pleasant things would be to divest the word
'endurance' of any meaning. It would be like that Monty Python
sketch where the officers of the Spanish Inquisition 'torture'
suspected heretics by making them sit in comfy armchairs, poking
them with soft cushions and serving them tea at eleven. It just
isn't torture.

> I tend to think khanti is not only for difficult aspects of life
> but there should be development of khanti even for the most
> pleasant and sublime feelings so that these are not grasped at.
> One endures even such feelings with khanti and detachment. Or
> there is khanti towards all objects through the eye, ear etc-
> whether they be desirable or undesirable. The commentary can be
> terse at times and not spell it all out. This is an aspect of
> Khanti- enduring the pleasant as well as the unpleasant- my
> teacher in thailand sometimes mentions.

But doesn't this amount to a conflation of khanti with upekkhaa?

Take the case of a sage being sawn to pieces by bandits. As I
understand it, it is by mettaa that there would arise no thought
of hatred towards his torturers, and by upekkhaa that he is
indifferent to the pain. And khanti, I suppose, would be his
ability to just lie still if there is no possibility of his
getting free.

Applying this to the case of a man undergoing a very pleasurable
experience, I can see that he might be able to regard the
experience with upekkhaa, but what would it mean to say that he
has khanti in this situation? How would a man with khanti
enjoying oysters differ from one enjoying oysters without khanti?

Best wishes,

Dhammanando