Re: Patisambhidamagga - Path of Discrimination (2nd Edition, 1997)

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, dhammanando@... wrote:

> Robert;> > I tend to think khanti is not only for difficult

aspects of life

> > but there should be development of khanti even for the most
> > pleasant and sublime feelings so that these are not grasped at.
> > One endures even such feelings with khanti and detachment. Or
> > there is khanti towards all objects through the eye, ear etc-
> > whether they be desirable or undesirable. The commentary can be
> > terse at times and not spell it all out. This is an aspect of
> > Khanti- enduring the pleasant as well as the unpleasant- my
> > teacher in thailand sometimes mentions.
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Venerable Dhammanando: But doesn't this amount to a conflation of
khanti with upekkhaa?

>
> Take the case of a sage being sawn to pieces by bandits. As I
> understand it, it is by mettaa that there would arise no thought
> of hatred towards his torturers, and by upekkhaa that he is
> indifferent to the pain. And khanti, I suppose, would be his
> ability to just lie still if there is no possibility of his
> getting free.
>
> Applying this to the case of a man undergoing a very pleasurable
> experience, I can see that he might be able to regard the
> experience with upekkhaa, but what would it mean to say that he
> has khanti in this situation? How would a man with khanti
> enjoying oysters differ from one enjoying oysters without khanti?
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Venerable Dhammanando,
I was able to find one reference where khanti is defined as both
acceptance (or endurance) of bothe the desirable and undedesirable.
It is in Dhammapala's commentary to the Cariyapitaka:
http://www.abhidhamma.org/Paramis-%20perfections%20of%20insight.htm
"Patience[khanti] has the characteristic of acceptance; its function
is to endure the desirable and undesirable; its manifestation is
tolerance or non-opposition; seeing things as they really are is its
proximate cause."

I think in your example the man who has developed khanti towards the
taste of oysters would be calm whether they had good or bad taste.
The one who hadn't developed khanti would eat with akusala citta
(either with greed or aversion) but the khanti man would have
neither greed or aversion.
with respect
Robert