On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 09:57:46PM -0000, fjornir wrote:
> > I may need to slow down and memorize some more vocabulary.
>
> Always a good idea. :-) My thought for this week was to
> sit down and do some work with the text we have so far.
> We'll probably make similar stops in the future.
>
> Feedback on the methodology and pedagogy is welcome.
That's probably a good thing. I've found myself looking up
the same word or construct week after week; clearly I'm not
getting them into my long term memory. I'm not sure why.
> > These brothers went around the market town always
>
> Correct.
>
> Note that Old Norse has no special 'imperfectum' tense.
> A more idiomatic English translation would probably be
> "These brothers were always walking around town..."
> Just a note. I know you prefer to translate as literally
> as possible.
Oops. I missed that one, or expected later sentences to turn
out differently, and didn't catch it when going back over the
first draft.
> > ok vildu kaupa sér gullhring þann er beztan fengu þeir ok mestan.
> >>
> > and wanted to buy him [might be 'from him', the hero, but more
> > likely 'for him', the king] the [this] gold ring which was the
> > best and biggest anyone [they] made.
>
> Slow down here :-) The pronoun
>
> (nom. missing)
> acc. sik
> dat. sér
> gen. sín
>
> is reflexive and is usually best translated by
> "himself, herself, itself, themselves".
How many times have I mesed up the reflexive pronoun now?
That and middle voice seem to be things I miss even when
I know better ... in this case, I keep trying to read sik (etc.)
as hann (etc).
> > Brýtr hann nú upp gørsimar sínar ok sýnir þeim einn
> > digran gullhring,
> >>
> > He now unpacks his treasures and showed them one thick
> > golden ring,
>
> Correct. You could just as well translate 'einn' with the
> English indefinite article.
In english "that's one big ring" and "that's a big ring" would
have slightly different tones; the first one is more emphatic.
I guesed that using 'einn' in the norse (rather than no article)
might have a similar implication....
In any case, my translation was still clumsy. Using 'one' that way
is unusual, and didn't fit with the rest of it.
> > ok mat svá dýrt at þeir þóttusk eigi sjá hvárt þeir munu
> > allt þat silfr fá,
> >>
> > and he valued it so dear that they didn't think to see
> > whether they must give all their silver,
>
> Now you've translated so literally that the English
> that comes out is nonsensical to me :-)
>
> The sentence means something like:
>
> "He put such a great price on it that they didn't think
> they could get all that silver"
I didn't fully understand it, hence the literal translation.
I thought they didn't check whether they had enough, maybe
didn't even ask the actual price, because they figured there
was no way they could afford to meet his price. (Since this
is a saga, it was about time for a bit of violence, or some
really expensive gift given perhaps in exchange for something
that will later cause a lot of trouble. Hence, I figured they
were going to get the ring through theft, intimidation, or as
a fee for services (to be) rendered, perhaps involving killing
someone. Obviously I didn't go back and correct my initial
impressions based on the later text.)
I think I could grow to hate the word fá; it's got far too many
meanings, and they don't seem related to an english speaker.
> > er hann mælti fyrir, þegar í stað, ok beiddu hann
> > fresta til morgins,
> >>
> > when he said first, at once into (the) place, and
> > they asked him to wait until morning,
>
> The word 'fyrir' never means "first" (that's 'fyrstr').
> The phrasal verb 'mæla fyrir' means "proscribe". Zoëga
> takes this phrase from Færeyinga saga as an example.
> Note the many uses attached to this verb. Many phrasal
> verbs too.
>
> http://www.northvegr.org/zoega/306.html
You got bit by the typo monster here. That should be prescribe,
not proscribe.
How do we get "prescribe", "order", and "bargain for" out of the same phrase?
(Rhetorical question; I'm clearly not getting the real sense of the term,
just a list of translations; the same problem as I have with fá, only
perhaps worse because it's a compound, and so more confusing.)
> > Nú gengu þeir í burt við svo búit, ok leið af sú nátt.
> > Now they went away without more ado (assuming svo == svá),
> > and the night passed (passed of that night).
>
> Correct. A younger 'svo' slipped into my text.
I may learn modern Icelandic spelling too, one of these days :-(
> > En um morguninn gengr Sigurðr í brott úr búðinni, en
> > Hárekr var eptir.
> >>
> > But in the morning Sigurðr went away from the booth,
> > and Hárekr went after him.
>
> A perfectly logical guess - but not correct.
> The phrase 'vera eptir' means 'stay behind'.
That makes the following sentences make rather more sense.
I've got to get into the habit of looking up compounds,
even when I think I know both words, if the logical meaning
seems at all strange in context.
> I see this week's text was difficult. As I mentioned
> to Sarah it's hard for me to actually know until you
> lot run into the obstacles - head first ;-)
Thank you for all the work you've put into this, and your
patience with my sometimes quite clumsy efforts.
--
Arlie
(Arlie Stephens arlie@...)