From: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
Message: 69724
Date: 2012-06-01
>Bhrihskwobhloukstroy:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:
>>
>> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
>> <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@> wrote:
>> >
>> > 2012/5/25, patrick cuadrado <dicoceltique@>:
>> > > Cremona < *Kremo-ponah2;
>> > > what means ? please
>> > >
>> > > Patrick
>> > > mon blog/mes oeuvres ici
>> > > Arthur Unbeau
>> > > http://www.pikeo.com/ArthurUnbeau
>> > >
>> > > [HTML and excess quoting deleted. -BMS]
>> > >
>> > Bhrihskwobhloukstroy:
>> >
>> > *KremH-o-pon-ah2 'Garlic-river'; for the first member cf. 'The Onions'
>> > town', de Bernardo Stempel 2000: 86. 93 (OIr. crem, crim)
>> > otherwise *Krem-o-pon-ah2 'Stone river', cf. Marcato et al. 1990: 238
>>
>> > Carla Marcato, Giuliano Gasca Queirazza S.J., Giovan Battista
>> > Pellegrini, Giulia Petracco Sicardi, Alda Rossebastiano (con il
>> > contributo di Elena Papa) Dizionario di toponomastica. Storia e
>> > significato dei nomi geografici italiani, Torino, Unione
>> > Tipografico-Editrice Torinese [Realizzazione editoriale: Anna Ferrari
>> > e Carlo Enrico Pietra (redazione), Silvana Lagable (revisione e
>> > segreteria). Fotocomposizione e stampa: Tipografia Sociale Torinese -
>> > S.p.A., Grugliasco (To[rino])], 1990 [XXVIII, 720 p.], ISBN
>> > 88-02-04384-1.
>> >
>> > Patrizia de Bernardo Stempel, «Ptolemy's Celtic Italy and Ireland: a
>> > Linguistic Analysis», in Ptolemy. Towards a linguistic atlas of the
>> > earliest Celtic place-names of Europe. Papers from a workshop,
>> > sponsored by the British Academy, in the Department of Welsh,
>> > University of Wales, Aberystwyth, 11-12 April 1999 edited by David N.
>> > PARSONS & Patrick SIMS-WILLIAMS (CMCS Publications · Department of
>> > Welsh, University of Wales, Aberystwyth · Old College, King Street,
>> > Aberystwyth, Ceredigion SY23 2AX), Aberystwyth, © CMCS [Typeset by
>> > David N. Parsons & Printed in Wales], 2000 [x, 188 p.], pp. 83-112.
>> DGK:
>> Ingenious. These folks are certainly earning their salaries. But why
>> call a town a river when the river is called something else? And if this
>> is how *-o:na is explained as Celtic, what is Sulmo:na doing on the
>> Sulmo:? Did they first name the town *Sulm-o-pon-ah2 'Overflow River' vel
>> sim., then forget what it meant, and extract the river-name from the town,
>> like Cam from Cambridge?
>
> Oops, I was sorely mistaken. There was no ancient "Sulmo:na on the Sulmo:",
> and I should have checked references before posting. There were two ancient
> towns called Sulmo:, of which one became Sulmone or Sulmona in modern
> dialects, a trivial development having nothing to do with the matter at
> hand, namely ancient towns in -o:na.
>
> What does involve the etymology of Cremo:na is that 'wild garlic' is
> reconstructed as an /u/-stem *kremh{x}u-, that there is a town Crema about
> halfway between Cremona and Milan (medieval Crema, I do not have an ancient
> reference), and that the ancient Cremo:nis Jugum 'Yoke of Cremo' referred to
> the Graian Alps. I think we are dealing with pre-Celtic nouns corradical
> with Greek <krema'nnu:mi> 'I hang up, allow to hang down, etc.'. Glaciated
> montane areas contain "hanging valleys" through which tributary glaciers
> moved.
>
> Instead of forcing fanciful Celtic etymologies on Derto:na, Cremo:na,
> Vero:na, and the like, I would simply recognize that the pre-Gaulish IE
> languages of Cisalpine Gaul, namely Ligurian, Rhaetic, and Venetic, retained
> inherited */o:/ rather than shifting it to */a:/.
>
> DGK
>
>
>