From: dgkilday57
Message: 67197
Date: 2011-02-25
>Sophus Bugge regarded Etruscan as related to Armenian, and he tried to shoehorn <zivas> into being an IE cognate of Latin <vi:vus>, Gothic <qius>, etc. That is how this translation of <zivas> started. Context suggests that it is actually the genitive of an abstract noun and has no connection with 'living'.
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Marco Moretti"
> > <marcomoretti69@...> wrote:
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "petegray" <petegray@...> wrote:
> > > > > Also, the meaning of the
> > > > > perfect is not so much completion as having an enduring
> > > > > effect.
> > > >
> > > > This is partly true of Greek, but are we right to read it back
> > > > into PIE? Even in Greek the "resultative perfect", showing the
> > > > result of an action continuing up to the present, is not found
> > > > as early as Homer (see Szemerenyi p293). We do find very early
> > > > the perfect used for actions which continue in their subject,
> > > > which is closer to a stative, or an antipassive. A large
> > > > number of Homeric perfects indicate attitude or mood, and they
> > > > describe the subject, not the object (e.g.: is ablaze,is
> > > > astir,is undone, fits, has as a share, etc). Verbs which are
> > > > transitive in later Greek are often intransitive as perfects in
> > > > Homer. (See Monro's Homeric Grammar, p31).
> > > >
> > > > The perfect in Skt is one of three past tenses which at times
> > > > are not to be distinguished, and when they are distinguished,
> > > > even scholars fight over the difference. In Latin the completion
> > > > is a stronger element than the enduring effect. (Remember
> > > > Cicero's one-word speech, "vixerunt", meaning "their lives are
> > > > over."; and Vergil's fuit Ilium = Troy is no more) In
> > > > Germanic it appears, in strong verbs, simply as the simple past.
> > > >
> > > > The meaning of the perfect in PIE is hard to establish. It
> > > > appears to be a highly marked form of the verb, which may have
> > > > connections in form to the middle, and connections in meaning to
> > > > a stative. But it does seem to describe the subject, not the
> > > > object.
> > > >
> > > > Peter
> > >
> > >
> > > Probably something similar also exists in Etruscan, if /zivas/
> > > = "life is over" (i.e. "he/her/they died"). A thorny topic.
> > > Probably some light could be shed on it by /...fler zivas.../
> > > found in Liber Linteus, less ambiguous than other attestation.
> > That's odd. I was just speculating on whether there was connectionOr you have discovered that Etruscan belongs in Afro-Asiatic. All you need now are about 100 other comparanda.
> > between PIE *h2-y-(w-) "life" and *gW-y-(w-) "life". Now it seems
> > that *h2/*gW "equation" one way or the other repeats itself in
> > Etruscan 'avils' "of age" and 'zivas' "lived".
> >
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/36632
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/36633
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/36637
>
> On that avil-, BTW
> Orël & Stol'bova
> Hamito-Semitic Etymological Dictionary
>
> '1255 *h.awil- "year"
>
> Semitic *h.awl- "year":
> Arab h.awl-.
>
> West Chadic *h.awil- "year":
> Fyer wel,
> Sha wul,
> Kir `awul,
> DB wil.
>
> East Chadic *`aliy- < *h.ayil- "year":
> Smr `aliya,
> Kwn oleye,
> Tum Élay
> Ndam lowa,
> Gbr ille,
> Mig `ila.
> Metathesis and change *-w- > *-y- before a front vowel.'
>
> FWIW. A 'Saharan' word originally?