Re: Negau

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Arnaud Fournet" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
> > >
> > > Yes and no, it seems.
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plough#Etymology
> > >
> > > Torsten
> > >
> > ==========
> >
> > About the hypothesis that NWB reflex for PIE *Bh as *ph,
> >
> > Apart from *bhlog > NWB pHlog- > Germanic plog-
>
> That one stinks: pliny says the plough was 'invented' in Raetia.
> They didn't speak NWB.
>
> =======
>
> I think this must make M. Knysh smile,
> this time the Roman Authors are right, when it supports your opinion
> and they are wrong, when it does not.

What? Example?

> Rumsfeldesque again !

Ah, perfide Albion! Arnauldesque again.

> What are the exact words of Pliny about "plough" ?
>

Searching in the archives with 'Pliny' and 'plough' gets you ia.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/60572
Next time, try it yourself.

>
> > I got two other proposals :
> >
> > pig < ME pigge < NWB Phug-i < PIE *bhug 'male, buck'
> > pit < OE pytt < NWB Phuth-i < PIE *bhudh-om
> >
> > I guess the first idea will be more acceptable to M. Mc Scott than
> > my previous suggestion it's a Tibetan LW.
> > As regards the second one, it seems to me that West Germanic *put
> > could be from NWB *Phuth instead of being a Latin LW of Put-eus.
> > A substrate word from NWB seems at least as acceptable as a Latin
> > LW for West Germanic.
> >
> > What do you think ?
>
> =======
> p/b alternation exists in the NWB words.
> T.
> =========
> This might result from a mixture of
> truly NWB words with *pH
> and Celtic words with *b
> much like
> Latin had f/b
> when other Italic had only f
> This is like saying that LAtin had b/f alternation
> because of ruber / rufus
>
> Therefore I disagree with your statement.

And when I said 'p/b alternation exists in the NWB words' it means
just that, not that p/b alternation exists in the NWB language, as you
seem to think it means.

>
> NWB must have a clean phonological perimeter
> otherwise it's uncontrollable fancy.
> I stick to
> PIE voiced > NWB voiced
> PIE voiced aspirate > NWB voiceless aspirate
> PIE voiceless > NWB voiceless
> It seems to fit non-Germanic words in west-Germanic very well.
> And it's coherent with Italo-Celtic
> as probably NWB was at least areally if not genetically close to
> Italo-Celtic.
>
> Arnaud
> ======
>
> Also check out the corresponding p/b (and also p/f) alternation in
> substrate words in Jysk
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/30336
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/32699
>
> Torsten
>
> ========
>
> These few words showing p/b alternation look terribly expressive :
> boast, gossip, obese, stare, gulp down.

So?


Torsten