Re: Scandinavia and the Germanic tribes such as Goths, Vandals, Angl

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
>
> > No need now for anyone to answer my question about the origin of the
> > /j/ in the Scandinavian names for the Jutes, or the forms <Jylland>
> > or <Jysk> (although why do these have <y>?), I hadn't seen this
> > message when I asked it.
>
> The standard explanation for Danish is that [ju] > [y] (/ju/ > /ü/)

But then why not **Ylland and *Ysk?

> (cf. Sw. djur, Da. dyr "animal") with a few exceptions
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djursland

Do Danes pronounce the <Djur> in this name as it is pronounced in
Swedish, or do you pronounce the <D->?

> except before /l/ (hjul "wheel", but Jysk hywl)

Is <hywl> a phonetic rendering of the Jysk word? Or is that how it is
actually spelt? And if so, what is the phonetic (IPA) rendering of
this word?

, except in the word

> Jylland ([y] by analogy from Jysk, that again with umlaut?), cf also
> Da. syv /süU/ (not **sy), Sw. sju "seven". But you still find
> archaizing Da. 'sjunge' (for synge, cf. Sw. sjunga) in hymns as late
> as the 19th cent.
>
> In contrast, personally I think the [ju] > [y] thing in Danish
> happened as a result of a regularization of the paradigm of class II
> strong verbs (original ju - y/ju - ö - u becoming Da. y - y - ö - u/y,
> Sw. ju - ju - ö/jö - ju), by mutual contrast, and that it spread from
> there by a type of hypercorrection, see
> http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/Shibbolethisation.html
>
>
> Torsten
>

I have known about Danish <y> = Swedish <ju> since childhood, I always
remember Danish <byde> = Swedish <bjuda>. It's the combination <jy>
whose origin I have not understood. Why the <J-> in <Jylland> and
<Jysk>, if these are Danish words?

Andrew