Re: RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme

Dear Gentlemen,

I am afraid you are rejoicing a little bit too early.

Kuhn's maps are interesting

BUT

1. the coast-line was lying more to the south in old days

2. Kuhn has overlooked data :

Instances of Condat and -ialos exist in higher numbers

in the area where they allegedly "should not",

3. Kuhn's Celtic markers are not the only Celtic markers available.

The area is just covered with Celtic markers, not taken into account by Kuhn.

Henceforth,

1. I must tell you that I feel undaunted

2. I am afraid that after we have filled up the holes in Kuhn's maps

and put the coast-line in the right place,

there is a clear risk that non-Celtic areas will be squeezed out.

Next,

I would like to ask Two questions about methodology :

Q1 :

Once place-names of Latin, Flemish, Frankish, Saxon are taken out of account,

how much Celtic percentage is necessary to consider an area as Celtic ?

Q2 :

How can a "Belgian" word be identified as being Belgian ?

I have never seen an invading population leaving no clear traces of its presence.

Franks, SAxons, Northmen, GAuls, Romans have left clear traces of their presence

in the region we are talking about.

If these "Belgians" have left no clear identifiably "Belgian" traces,

they just do not exist.

What "Belgian" traces do you claim ?

----- Original Message -----

From: george knysh

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 7:06 AM

Subject: Re: RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme

--- patrick cuadrado <dicoceltique@ yahoo.fr> wrote:

> you said
> Thérouanne : Tarvo-(w)onna : the river of the
> Bull
> > Was the capital of the Morini.
>
> keep care
> Thérouanne is from Taro- = to cross...the river
> (onna)
>
> see Taru-essedum in Cisalpine = the town crossed
> by chariot
>
>
> tgpedersen <tgpedersen@... com> a écrit :

****GK: (So as to avoid lapsing into irrelevancies) :
the areas in Kuhn's maps practically "Celt-free" as to
hydro- and toponyms are PRECISELY those which in 57BC
were inhabited by non-Celtic Belgic tribal units,
according to Caesar: Morini, Menapii, Nervii (the key
group when we compare DBG 1:1 and 2:4), Aduatuci,
Eburones, Condrusi, Caeresi, Paemani. That's about
half the population of the Belgic Alliance... Let's
quote Caesar again, this time in English, since the
Latin original does not seem to have impressed our
Gallic chauvinists (:=)): "a great many [this is my
translation of Caesar's "plerosque" which the Perseus
project site I quote renders as "the greater part" GK]
of the Belgae were sprung, from the Germans, and that
having crossed the Rhine at an early period, they had
settled there, on account of the fertility of the
country, and had driven out the Gauls who inhabited
those regions"...
Now even if the entire territory North of the Somme
were saturated with Celtic place-names (which it
obviously is not) this would in no sense derogate from
the validity of Caesar's witness, since place names
could remain even if the bulk of a prior population
was displaced or assimilated. An elementary historical
fact, with countless examples. Clear enough?****

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