Re: [tied] Belgians and Gauls

Arnaud:

I notice you refer to Saxons in your linguistic
history of N France & Belgium. Shouldn't that be
Franks? I Thought the Franks, both Salian and
Riparian, stood between the Celts and the Saxons.
Correct me if i'm wrong. OTOH, I can't imagine there
would have been too much difference between Frankish
and Saxon c. 50 BC-400 AD

--- george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:

>
> --- "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
> wrote:
>
> > As I have already written to Torsten Pedersen,
> > I do not consider Caesar to be a reliable
> > ethnologist. etc.. /cut for economy/
>
> ****GK: Caesar was a "bastard" and Kuhn a
> "hypocrite"
> who produced "disgusting" "ugly work". "Bull-shit"
> etc..
> Unfortunately, Kuhn's maps (which TP kindly
> uploaded)
> seem pretty convincing. One needs more than
> emotional
> outbursts to deal with these hard facts.****
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Caesar is a Roman Middle-class prestige-obsessed
> > bastard,
> > He conquered and killed as many countries and
> people
> > as possible
> > in order to get what he was craving for :
> > A seat among the old-styled Roman upper-class.
> > In the end, He failed : this wild beast was killed
> > because he was becoming too much a danger to
> > everybody.
> >
> > I must reassert that there is nothing to support
> > this dichotomy between whatsoever Belgian and
> P-celt
> > GAulish.
> > (This dichotomy ranks below Bull.Shit)
> >
> > Place-names and French dialects
> > that have been carefully studied by competent
> > lexicologists
> > such as Wartenburg and many others
> > for 200 years
> > have never made necessary
> > that the Gaulish lexical heritage should be cut in
> > two,
> > (or why not more than two).
> >
> > As far as I can see,
> > The lexical and toponymic heritage
> > from the Loire River northward to the Rhine River
> > requires nothing else than P-Celt Speaking People
> :
> > that is to say obviously Gaulish people.
> >
> > So far
> > the propagandists of this "Belgian" hypothesis
> > have utterly failed to bring any real FACT and
> DATA
> > that would make this hypothesis
> > anything but "spit in the air".
> >
> > As for the Low-German
> > (Nederlants) pier "worm"
> >
> > This word requires two comments :
> >
> > 1. it is from P-celt
> > PIE kwer "worm" hence P-celt Gaulish > Nederlants
> > pier.
> > this makes GAulish the substrate under Nederlants.
> >
> > If we are to find a pre-GAulish substrate in
> Dutch,
> > this is not the right word.
> >
> > 2. the PIE "root" *kwerm" must be improved :
> > Root 1 : kwer "worm"
> > Root 2 : kum "ant" (with -r- infix)
> >
> > Root 2 has macro-comparative cognates in Touareg
> > root "kum"
> > Touareg has a reduplicated form : kedede-KUM
> "ant".
> >
> > Thanks to GAulish preserved in Nederlants PIER,
> > we can sort out these two roots.
> >
> >
> > Please forward my warmest brotherly salutations to
> > the Gwelgians.
> > They badly need a straw to grab.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: george knysh
> > To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 3:14 PM
> > Subject: Re: [tied] Belgians and Gauls
> >
> >
> >
> > --- "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The general opinion about the Celts is that
> they
> > > originate
> > > in the area North of the Alps (Present day
> > Austria
> > > and Bavaria)
> > > probably occupying all the area from the
> Eastern
> > > bank of the Rhine to Lituania
> > > If these "Belgians" come from the eastern bank
> > of
> > > the Rhine
> > > they just are Celtic.
> >
> > ****GK: Maybe. All we can say is that the
> language
> > of
> > the Belgae proper was sufficiently sui generis
> for
> > Caesar to consider it as distinct and different
> > from
> > that of the Gauls. Why should he have been lying
> > about
> > this? He didn't about Ariovistus' linguistic
> > proficiencies.****
> > >
> > > My point of view about these "Belgians" is
> that
> > they
> > > either are
> > > a pre-celtic substrate or they just don't
> exist
> > as a
> > > "particular" people.
> >
> > ****GK: I prefer Caesar's point (:=))****
> > >
> > > On what basis can one speak of "Belgian"
> > invaders ?
> >
> > ****GK: Cf. DBG 2:4: "Cum ab iis quaereret quae
> > civitates quantaeque in armis essent et quid
> > in bello possent, sic reperiebat: plerosque
> Belgos
> > esse ortos a Germanis
> > Rhenumque antiquitus traductos propter loci
> > fertilitatem ibi consedisse
> > Gallosque qui ea loca incolerent expulisse"
> > >
> > > The Gauls too are invaders !
> > > And their expansion toward west and south was
> > not
> > > stopped by Roman occupation.
> >
> > ****GK: Certainly, but this hardly affects
> > Caesar's
> > point.****
> >
> >
> >
>

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