Re: [tied] Re: park, was *pVs- for cat

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister
> <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:

. . .

> >
> > park is an intersting word
> > 1. It can't be Q-Celtic
> > 2. It couldn't have been borowed by Goidelic until
> > after 500-600 AD because early Old Irish
> > systematically replaced /p/ with /kw/ then /k/
>
> In loans from p-Celtic, you mean?

All loans, including Latin and Greek, etc.

> Everything is temporary, so there must have been a
> time before that
> period where Old Irish didn't do that. If it
> replaced /p/ > /kW/ only
> in loans from p-Celtic as it loaned them, earlier
> loans in p- would
> have survived. If it replaced all /p/'s with /kW/'s,
> all words in p-
> must be loaned later than 500-600AD and will be
> NWBlock words in English.
>
>
> > 3. It can't be native to Germanic
> > 4. the final -k does seem to be a suffix, see
> Spanish
> > parra "trellis, grid, etc."
>
> That's another NWBlock word; it goes with Engl. bar,
> Germ. Barre,
> Germ. sperren "block".
>

Okay, then that's probably where it comes from BUT I
thought English bar was from Gaulish as well as
barrel, barricade, etc. Perhaps if a form *bar/r/V
were borrowed from Gaulish into German, that might
explain it. It guessing English spar and German Spar
"rib" are also related

>
> >--which seems to mean the
> > same as Latin carcer "jail" but originally "grid",
> if
> > I remember correctly.
>
> But that would make the second -k- the NWBlock
> suffix *-(V)k and then
> the final -r would be yet another suffix, and that's
> not NWBlock.
> Ernout-Meillet sees a connection to cancri: "grid"
> etc.
>
>
> > This makes me wonder if it's a
> > P-Celtic word --but this presupposes that either
> the
> > Latin root was *kwar- or that somehow *kar mutated
> to
> > *kwar. So are there any IE *kar-, *kwar- words
> that
> > mean "enclosure, grid" etc.?
>
> Carcer has /a/ in the root and is a 'mot populaire'.
> Ernout-Meillet
> has no derivation for it. Probable loan.
>
>
> Torsten
>
>
>

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