--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:
> I doubt that Tiberis is an Etruscan name........Lat. Tiberis, Dac.
> *Tibisia < *tibH- are both regulars.......So the PIE *tibH- is
> possible both for Dacian river name as for the Latin name.
I'm not in a position to comment on this, but check also the
following materials:
http://tinyurl.com/yspg2g
"Varro (Ling. Lat. V.29, 30) states that the name of the river was
claimed both by the Etruscans and Latins - by the former as being
called after Thebris,.......prince of the Veientes; by the latter as
being named after Tiberinus, king of the Latins. Varro seems to
incline to the Etruscan origin. See also Festus, s.v. Tiberis; Serv.
ad Virg. Aen. III.500; VIII. 72, 330."
http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/i8405.pdf
Here J.D. Reed mentions the fact that Virgil almost exclusively uses
the name Thybris -- not Tiberis -- for the river Tiber; this form
may have been suggested to him by the old Etruscan name of the
river, Thebris. In Virg. Aen. VIII.33032 it is stated that the
Tiber took its name from a local king named Thybris (a variant of
Varro's "Prince Thebris", on which see above).
http://digilander.libero.it/toponomastica/latium.html
"Etymology: The classical name Tiberis has counterparts in Tifernus
fl. and Tifernum (Umbria), having been explained from the IE root
*tibh- 'to melt', which is very productive for hydronyms. Related to
the name, outside of Italy, are also Tibesis fl. (Dacia), Tibina fl.
(Sarmatia). The variant Thybris, found also in Greek sources, could
have been the original "Pelasgian" spelling, since in this language
there is evidence of a shift from the voiceless stops to voiceless
aspirated stops, with the aspiration usually not marked in Latin.
The feature *bh > b is also compatible with the "Pelasgian"
language. The "Pelasgian" can be responsible of various place-names
of the neighboring Southern Etruria."
Assuming that the author of the last quotation uses the
term "Pelasgian" to mean "Etruscan", there may have been a
conflation between the IE root *tibh- and a pre-existing Etruscan
hydronym Thebris/Thybris.
Others (Wikipedia people...) assume that, if the Latin name Tiberius
is from Etruscan Thefarie, then the original Etruscan name of the
river Tiber would have been *Thefar because the anthroponym Thefarie
was probably based on the name of the river. *Thefar does not look
to me that far removed from the attested form Thebris (see above).
Maybe Thebris < Theb(a)r-is = Thef(a)r-is? Is <-is> a known Etruscan
suffix?
> Regarding Etruscan u > Latin o: Some of Pittau's quoted examples
> have a clear IE Etymology: that confirm more the inverse
> supposition: Latin o > Etruscan u
But see what Pittau writes on this problem! I may sum it up as
follows:
http://web.tiscali.it/pittau/Etrusco/Studi/roma_testo.html
Etruscan loans into Latin have either preserved their original /u/
(written as Y or V) or have changed it into a long /o/. Examples are
numerous and are mainly confined to anthroponyms (representing the
greatest part of the available Etruscan lexical record):
Etr. Amuni > Lat. Amunius and Amonius
Etr. Clute > Lat. Clutius, Cludius (adj. cludus) and Clotius,
Clodius (adj. clodus)
Etr. Crus'ni > Lat. Crusius and Crosius
Etr. Cursni > Lat. Cursenus and Corsinius
Etr. Fului > Lat. Fulvius and Folvius
Etr. Funei > Lat. Funius and Fonius
Etr. Murias' > Lat. Murrius and Morrius
Etr. Plute > Lat. Plutius and Plotius
Etr. Prute > Lat. Brutus and Protius
Etr. Puntna > Lat. appellatives funtana, funtes and fontes
Etr. Purce > Lat. Purcius and Porcius
Etr. Rusci > Lat. Ruscius and Roscius
Regards,
Francesco