Re: Res: [tied] Etymology of Rome

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
<miguelc@...> wrote:

>
> On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:25:33 -0000, "alexandru_mg3"
> <alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:
>
> >--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2007-03-07 22:44, alexandru_mg3 wrote:
> >>
> >> > Long in Clasical Period, but 'as I know' it wasn't a long-

o 'at the

> >> > beginning'...
> >>
> >> _What_ beginning? _How_ do you know it was once short? And how

did it

> >> become long?
> >>
> >> Piotr
> >
> >
> >1. the laryngeal-h was lost in *h1romh-
> >
> >2. As result, 'I expect' the compensatory lengthening of the short-

o :

> >*h1romh-eh2 > *ro:m-a:
>
> No, that doesn't happen. The syllable structure would be
> *h1rom.Hah2, and the laryngeal would have been lost without
> a trace.

'At-the-beginning' I agree it was *h1rom-heh2

BUT next the lost of the laryngeal trigerred the change of the
syllable structures too, 'in the same time' with the compensatory
lengthening.
so *h1rom-heh2 > [h>zero] > ro:-ma: is the logical output.

Your proposed alternive (after the lost of laryngeal) rom-a: is
impossible.

For another, example, that shows us the change of syllabic
structure:
see *kWers-reh2 > Rom(.-Subtratum) c^wa:-ra: 'crow' NOT c^wa:r-a:

> >3. so 'at_the_beginning', I mean 'originary' (-> I'm very sorry

for my

> >English, seems that it wasn't at all clear enough) =>
> >so 'at_the_beginning', we have a short-o 'in Rome' and the long-o

has

> >resulted from compensatory lenghtening of that short-o
> >
> >4. The presence of h after m, in *h1remh-, is indicated, as I

said, by

> >the Lithuanian form (Lith. r'imti)
>
> rìmti (1sg. rìmstu) is a zero grade form (< *rm.-sk^é- or
> *rm.H-ské-) and is inconclusive about the presence or not of
> a laryngeal. The full grade form, rem~ti, on the other hand,
> clearly indicates there was _no_ laryngeal. This is
> confirmed by LIV, which gives the verbal root as *h1rem-
> "ruhig werden". The only forms which _might_ point to a
> set.-root (laryngeally ended) are the na:-presents in
> Sanskrit and Tocharian, but they are secondary (thus LIV).
>
> If Skt. ra:man "peace, quiet" is from *romen-, that would
> also indicate an anit.-root: in a set.-root *romHen- the
> /o/, in a closed syllable, would have been short.
>
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> miguelc@...
>

BEEKES reconstructs *h1remH- see below : I fully quote him:

<< Origin (see intro): IEX [864] *h1remH- `rest, be quiet' >>
[...]
<< Lith. rìmti `be quiet' (with laryngeal) >>

Could you guess why?

Marius