From: alex
Message: 43315
Date: 2006-02-08

The Egyptian Chronicles schrieb:
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> *Q.* Which is the pronunciation of Arabic *"q"* in *"qaf_a_"*
> *A.*The initial letter *"q"* in Arabic is an *emphatic voiceless
> uvular*, I have taken the liberty to include a phonetic diagram of the
> morpheme to explain it.
> *Q*. If it is an Arabic loan we still have some strange evidence of how
> old this word is in Romanian and Albanian.

it is excluded. Regardless its source, no loan in Rum. will be
rendered as "c^" if there has ben an "kV/qV" where "V" is a front or
a central vowel.

> *Q.* Could we check if this word is *'inherited' *in Arabic or is an
> *Old Greek* or Turkish loan ?
> *A.* The Arabic *"qaf_a_"* is from *Old Arabic* and *Classic Arabic*
> (pre Islamic times). To my knowledge there is no trace of *"qaf_a_"* in
> *Greek.*

there is no "qafa" in Greek but in Greek is "kephalos" with the "e"
requested by Rum. as well.

> The question may be posed slightly differently: What are the
> first occurrences in the* Rumanian *and *Albanian* languages?
Can > you
> provide such? Taking in consideration that any influence via the
> *Turkish* language did not come into play on the* Balkan* scene
> until
> the fall of Constantinople in *1453*.

the literar testimonies of Alb. and Rum. are not of much use since
they are late, very late. I guess for Alb. there is XV century and
for Rum. there is the XVI century.

> Further, this is not an isolated case where a *Classic Arabic* term made
> its way into a European language (from the *Indo-European* group). I
> cannot give a better example of this transmission than its direct
> synonym * `unuq* *(`nq),* the *Arabic *term for *"neck" *found in the
> Germanic group, */hnakki, hnecca/*and */hnac/* in *ON, OE* and *OHG*
> respectively. See the Arabic definition and compare it to the *Germanic*
> group. Also the * Rum.: _nuca_ for cervix lit. "the neck." applied to
> various neck-like structures of the body, especially that of the uterus. )*

are you kidding here? "nuca" is a Latin loan and the meaning of the
word is never "cervix"; at least I never heard the word used as
such. The German word "Nacken", Eng. "neck" are consiered to be
cognate with Tocharian "knuk" but not loans from Arabic. Which
should be the reason/demonstration the word is a loan from Arabic?

> The initial *h, *in many cases, can correspond to the sound of Arabic
> initial * `ayn (*example* *in the term* Hebrew *for Arabic*`briy). *

sorry, I cannot confirm or infirm here. The oldest terminology for
hebrews in Rum. is the form "jidov" or "jidan". The form "jidov" is
condiered to entered the lang. from Slavic "z^idovinU" and the form
"jidan" should be a internal compound of "jid" + suffix. "-an". The
form "jid" alone was unknown to me, never heard about until I
searched a bit. The form "evreu" is too a loan from Slavic "evreinU".

> BTW, none of the terms "*qaf_a_,* *gyd* and/or *`nq*" are found in any
> of the so-called Semitic languages. It is to be remembered that in the
> late 8thc the Arabs were already in direct contact with the* Bulgars *in
> the* Balkan* and the *"Ruws" (Vikings) *in the *Volga* region. (see*
> Risl_a_lah of Ibn Fadlan*** below).*
> **

not only that way. The European migration in that part of the world
where now are the Arabic countries is known. See the migration of
Thracians there for instance. BTW what is this "gyd" you meant here?
In which languages should be loaned and what is its meaning?

> *Finally, you may take notice of the following assemblage of cognate
> correspondences:*

or maybe just some false friends as indic "kafa" or turkish "kaftan"
for instance.