PIE suffix -ro and different beings ressembling with coulours
From: alexandru_mg3
Message: 42801
Date: 2006-01-07
Before to continue with Piotr's *ro-list I want to add another
(strong) argument to my rule : The PIE-constructions for different
beings ressembling with colors
1. Latin niger 'dark;black' < PIE *negW-ro 'ressembling-with/like the
dark-color' (but of course having a different nature)
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For cognates of the root *negW- 'to get dark':
See Albanian njegull 'dark fog' <-> Romanian negurã 'id.'< PIE *negW-
ulo '
NOTE-for-Patrick: I cannot see any special intensity of the dark-color
in the 'niger' word :)
NOTE-1 : We can see here a PIE root having an alternance *nekW-/gW-
'dark' =>if we would add also *nokW-t-i-s 'night' here => that could
be an old *-to extension meaning "'full-of' dark; 'the complete' dark"
NOTE-2: Please note also that is *nokW-t-i-s 'full-of dark' not *nokW-
n-i-s 'resulted from darkness' or nokW-r-i-s 'similar-with the
darkness (but having a different nature)' :) )
NOTE-3: On the other hand, please note that we have for 'day': both
*dih2-t-eh2 'full-of-brigthness' but also *dei(h2)-n-o 'resulted from
the (sun) brigthness':
a)So from PIE *deih2- 'to shine' we have:
"day" = *dih2-t-eh2 "full-of brigthness" (PAlb. *di:ta: > Alb
ditë 'day')
(see also: PIE *nbh-ro + dih2-t-eh2 > Grk. Aph-ro-di:-t-a: 'Like-a
(full-shining) cloud' => 'a full-shining foam' => to imagine all the
splendor of this deity)
b) But also 'day' means:
*dei(h2)-n-o "resulting from the (sun) brigthness" (Lith. dienà)
2. Albanian sorrë/Rom. c^oarã 'crow' < PIE *kWers-ro 'ressembling-
with/like the black (color)'
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a) The 'current standard' derivation of PAlb *c^wa:ra: is PIE *kWers-
no (or -n-eh2) but the -rn- cluster should be preserved in this case
in Romanian : that is not the case => see Alb. kërrutë <-> Romanian
cornutã < Latin cornu:ta (with Alb u < Latin u:, so a very late Latin
Loan in PAlb.) (and note too that PAlb c^ > ts is older that rn > rr
in PAlb)
b) Also against the idea that asserts: "We have had a 'long life' of
Albanian rn > rr" (Piotr) => see Dacian (attested) Tsierna;Dierna with
a well and safe -rn- cluster inside.
c) Viewing all these (I mean : a) and b)) I invented *kwers-n.-
(because n.>a in PAlb) => but there is not posible to have a
vocalization of n in that position
Conclusion: There was no -n- in Albanian word for 'crow'. Now, the
semantism of *-ro 'similar-with' really indicate us the final
construction :
PAlb/Dacian? *c^wa:ra: < PIE *kWers-ro (or *kWers-r-eh2) that
defined 'the crow' as => "similar-to/ressembling-with the black-color
(but having a different nature" : a crow, is first of all, a bird
3. Romanian barzã 'stork' should be also in this case from *bhrh1g'-ro
(and the Alb. bardhë 'white' remains from *bhrh1g'-o)
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BRAVO, Piotr!!! - I rejected your above idea: Rom. barza 'stork' >
*bhrh1g'-ro (> ORom. bardza) but I better understand it now, based on
the semantism of the suffix *-ro (-> now I will wait that you will
accept too this semantism :))
Romanian(<Dacian) *bardz-ra 'stork' is defined as => '"similar-with"
the white-color' (but of course having a different nature (being a
bird))
NOTE:
No need to go on PIE time with a *bhrh1g'-ro > *bhrh1g'-o evolution:
because we have Latin fra:ter - > PRom fratre (attested in 'Torna
torna fratre' (587 CE) > Romanian frate
So a PAlb/Dacian *bardz-ra > Romanian bardza should be regular in
Romanian
Marius
P.S. : Finally all I can say is: URA!!!! seems that we found the right
solutions here....