[tied] Re: Etymology of "Warsaw"

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

> george knysh wrote:
> > --- tolgs001 <george_st@...> wrote:
> >
> >>> Even for me looks more plausible PIE *wer-s 'rain,
> >> flood' (cf. Alb.
> >>> <vërshoj> 'to ovrflood'), I guess we can't deny the
> >> long
> >>> brotherhood between Slavs and Avars, so the name
> >> could easy
> >>> be of Avar origin <varosh> 'subburb of the castle',
> >> attested
> >>> in many place names (cf. also Vrshac in Banat).
> >>>
> >>> Konushevci
> >>
> >> cf. Hungarian város ['va:roS] "city" < vár [va:r]
> >> "fortress,
> >> castle" (< PIE *wer ?) & Romanian ora$ [o-'raS]
> >> "city".
> >>
> >> George
> >
> > *****GK: Is there anything in the archaeology of
> > Warsaw to indicate that it might have been a fortress
> > in Avar times (say up to the end of the 8th c. when
> > Avar power collapsed)? If not the above speculation is
> > rather idle.****
>
>
> that is a pertinent question regarding the arheological aspect. I

am not

> sure how pertinent is my question:
> -why no methathesis in "Vars^-" if the "-ova" is just the simply

suffix?

> I put this question because a similar sounding word presents the
> methathesis. I mean for instance here the Sl. "vraz^a" or "vrac^"

or

> "vrabiI" or "vrahU", "vraz^Ida".
> The same situation is in Bulgarian where the name "varna" does not

present

> the expected methathesis as in word "vrana".
>
> Alex

************
The last thing I like to do is to speculate about any place name. I
just read about Warsaw and I saw that its most important side is the
castle, so I just make the guessing that it could be of Avar origin.
In hurry I didn't wrote "brotherhood", for Slavs were in subjugated
position to the Avars, besides the known fact of some kind of
federation of Avars and Slavs.
Why we haven't liquids' metathesis, its probably a question of time
frame, where this toponym was created. Probably when this soundlaw
cease to function.
I am too much aware that, for example, Varna (to my view, aphetic
form of Avarna) was one of the main places of Avars cultural
archeological findings.

Konushevci