Re: [tied] Vanir

I don't think that the Kingdom of Vani could be a good candidate for Vanir.
The reasons why not are, IMHO:

- Geography. The Vanaheim is situated on the Tanais banks (a neighbour
region of Asaheim), but not behind the Caucasus mountain far southward.

- A town. The center of the Kingdom of Vani was the town of Vani but towns
of Vanir were never mentioned (in contrast with Asgaard) - only Vanaheim and
Vanaland.

- Way of life. During the war "victory was changeable, and they ravaged the
lands of each other, and did great damage". If Aesir were semi-nomads, Vanir
had to be (semi)nomads too, otherwise the war would not have a character as
described and would not finished with mutual love. Actually one of the
tribes was incorporated in the structure of another one.

If Aesir are not a fruit of imagination of ancient Scandinavians, but a real
tribe they must be Asses (= Yass = Yazig), a group of Alanian people
(sometimes Asses were equated with Alans, sometimes were mentioned side by
side with them). Everything - name (letter by letter), time, place, many
details fit well.

Whom Vanir could be then?
Before moving in Europe many Alanian groups were incorporated into the
Hunnian horde, as usually happened with defeated nomads.
BTW before the end of the 4th century AD, when Huns went to Europe, they
inhabited exactly the Lower Don, i.e. where Tanais "falls into the Black
Sea" and where Vanaheim was situated.

A question to the linguists:

Is it thinkable that a transformation like

Hunnu > *Vun > Van

occurred in a East Iranian or an North Germanic language ?


Alexander

----- Original Message -----
From: <tgpedersen@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 4:04 PM
Subject: [tied] Vanir


>
>
> I thought about for a while: is everybody tired of hearing about
> Snorri's ideas of the Aesir living on the Don and fighting Vanir to
> the east of them; but on the other hand, if someone should speculate
> on the origins of the Vanir, so ...
>
> in
> http://www.alekseevmanuscript.com/ChapterVIII.html
>
> you find:
>
> "
> Kingdom of Vani
> As per Alexeev, the Kingdom of Vani 5 is in existence in the
> seventh/sixth century BC and lasts until the first century AD. This
> kingdom is located in Georgia close to the Black Sea; Vani is also
> the name of a town. This kingdom is influenced by Greece but it also
> has its native cultural traditions 6. Linguists do not know which
> languages were spoken [Arutiunov says the language most probably was
> early Zanic]; however, inscriptions on gravestones are in Greek. This
> site has been excavated for thirty years revealing a great square
> with architecture similar to Greece. The Vani people are metal users.
> Iron is used for tools, with an occasional implement made of bronze;
> bronze is considered very valuable. Thus in the early Iron Age there
> is a mixing of a new tradition of iron with the old tradition of
> bronze.
> "
>
> http://www.alekseevmanuscript.com/ChapterVII.html
> on "Zalic" or Zanic":
>
> "
> Kartli is the name of an ancient kingdom in the first century AD.
> Georgian is spoken in Georgia proper and Megrelian (Mingrelian) is
> spoken in western Georgia. Svanian is spoken in the central mountain
> region north of the Megrelian area. Georgian, Megrelian, and Svanian
> belong to the Kartic = Kartvelian Family. HOLLIS adds the Laz
> language to the Kartvelian group. Arutiunov comments that Laz and
> Megrelian are two dialects of a single language arbitrarily called
> Zanic.
> "
>
>
> So they might have been Kartvelian speakers.
>
> Torsten
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>