Re: Liburnan Isis in Germania

--- In cybalist@..., "William P. Reaves" <beowulf@...> wrote:

> Hej,
>
> Personally I think that by Isis in Germania, Freyja is meant. She

and Isis

> have a common myth, both are said to wander in search of their

beloved, in

> tears as they travel. Both are prominent myths of the respective
> goddesses.That alone would be enough for Tacitus to interpret

Freyja as

> Isis.
>
> As for the light warship, we see that Freyja's brother possesses
> Skidbladnir, a ship that can hold all of the gods fully armed, yet

is small

> enough that it can be folded like a napkin and carried in the pocket
> (Grimnismal).
>
> Her brother Frey too is said to possess the boar Gullinbursti made

for him

> by dwarves. We see that Freyja too possesses such a boar,

Hlidsvini, made

> for her by the dwarves Dainn and Nabbi according to the Eddic poem
> Hyndluljod. Thus the transference or the sharing of the "light

warship" by

> her is explainable.
>
> Such foldable ships were also supposedly found in graves, although

I cannot

> recall if this is true or not. Although it is common knowledge that

ships

> are prominent in grave goods and in rock carvings throughout the

pagan

> period in Scandinavia.
>
> Wassail, William
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Some of the Suebi also make sacrifices to Isis. Of where the

cause and

> origin of this foreign cult is, I have figured out very little,

except that

> her image, shaped in the Liburnan fashion(?)/in the fashion of a

Liburna(?)

> points to a religion coming from the outside."
>
> > What is 'liburnae' here? My dictionary says: 'liburna' "light,

fast-

> sailing warship;
> > Can anybody help me out here?
>
> >I suppose this means we can take him on his word, that this is

actually an

> Isis cult? Anyway, if a "native" Germanic goddess is meant here,

who is it?

>
>
>
>
> >It might be that Tacitus did not have the true name of the

Suebian

> goddess, and recorded one that equated to Isis, who was basically

one of the

> 'Great Mother' goddesses. Why he chose to identify Isis from
> this large group is curious, though.
>

Very convincing, I must say. But why does Tacitus insist that the
Liburna image 'docet' that this religion is imported? Remember we are
talking about a people near to the Ocean. Did Liburnans have ship-
model goddesses too? Were the boats that similar? Would Tacitus have
been so sloppy as not to inquire into possible differences? He
manitains that the Germani must have arrived by sea to their homes.
In his theory, therefore, there is no room for contact with the
Liburnae. If he observes evidence to the contrary, one would expect
him to go out of his way to disprove that the Liburna ship models (?)
were related to the Suebian ones (just look at the antics of some of
us on this list trying to make the shoe fit ;-)). He doesn't. Hm!
And if I accept your argument, we're back to: why are these two myths
so similar (which is exactly what puzzled Tacitus in the first place)?

Torsten