Re: [tied] Re: Dravidian in Persia?

From: Harald Hammarstrom
Message: 9881
Date: 2001-09-30

Very intesting Piotr, do you have the exact references for the most
important papers by McAlpin ? Are any available on the net ?

Thanks

Harald


On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:

> The "Elamo-Dravidian" hypothesis, in its most advanced form, was formulated by David W. McAlpin in a series of papers in the 1970s and 80s (others, e.g. Stephen A. Tyler, suggest a genetic connection between Dravidian and Uralic or "Ural-Altaic"). The Elamo-Dravidian family is taken for granted by Nostraticists of all denominations, but has not been accepted by most Dravidologists (though some, e.g. Kamil V. Zvelebil, are cautiously sympathetic to it). It seems likely, at any rate, that the Proto-Dravida were pastoralists (no native agricultural vocabulary) who reached the area of Sindh from the west before the appearance of the Indo-Aryans, early enough to become an ethnic and linguistic component of the Indus Civilisation. The main linguistic component of the latter (at least in its northern part) was, according to F.B.J. Kuiper, a heavily prefixing language typologically close to and apparently related to the Munda languages (Michael Witzel calls it "Para-Munda"). That hypothetical language accounts for a large number of substrate loans of the early Rigvedic period. The first contacts of the Indo-Aryans with post-Indus populations were with Para-Munda speakers, the earliest Dravidian loans appearing in the middle and late Rigvedic periods (roughly, the latter half of the second millennium BC), as the Dravida moved from the deserted areas of Sindh towards the Panjab. From that time on, Dravidian influence on Indo-Aryan increased.
>
> Zvelebil derives the Dravida from the highlands of eastern Iran; linguistic palaeontology suggests that they were semi-nomadic herders. It may be significant that the Dravida had their own "horse" words (Witzel suggests that they may have been the first horse-users in the Indus cultural area) but borrowed their wagon and chariot-related vocabulary from the Indo-Aryans. If they came to Sindh via southeastern Iran and Baluchistan (a more southerly route than that taken later by the Indo-Aryans), one can see why there is no linguistic evidence of pre-migration borrowings in either direction. If the Dravida came from Central Asia or belonged originally to a chain of related cultures extending into the steppes, they must have left that area before the arrival of Indo-European peoples there.
>
> Piotr
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jpisc98357@...
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 4:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Dravidian in Persia?
>
>
> Tepe Yahya is the name you are searching for, it is on the land rout from Elamite Susa during the Bronze Age to Mohenjo Daro and from there north to Harappa. There was a northern route direct to Bactria by which tin and lapis caravans followed an established trade. There is speculation that Elam ruled much of the Iranian platteau before the arrival of the Indo European tribes in the first millenium and that they had a land frontier with the Harappan culture(s).
>
> Has anyone noted any resemblence between Old Elamite and the Dravidian languages? There were no Indo Europeans in the area of South Iran until the ninth C. at the earliest, they would have been nomadic herders like those in Luristan, a niche that was already taken. The Lurs were not IE and their territories stood between the north and Elam.
>