From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 9883
Date: 2001-09-30
--- In cybalist@..., Harald Hammarstrom <haha2581@...> wrote:
> Very intesting Piotr, do you have the exact references for the most
> important papers by McAlpin ? Are any available on the net ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Harald
>
>
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:
>
> > The "Elamo-Dravidian" hypothesis, in its most advanced form, was
formulated by David W. McAlpin in a series of papers in the 1970s and
80s (others, e.g. Stephen A. Tyler, suggest a genetic connection
between Dravidian and Uralic or "Ural-Altaic"). The Elamo-Dravidian
family is taken for granted by Nostraticists of all denominations,
but has not been accepted by most Dravidologists (though some, e.g.
Kamil V. Zvelebil, are cautiously sympathetic to it). It seems
likely, at any rate, that the Proto-Dravida were pastoralists (no
native agricultural vocabulary) who reached the area of Sindh from
the west before the appearance of the Indo-Aryans, early enough to
become an ethnic and linguistic component of the Indus Civilisation.
The main linguistic component of the latter (at least in its northern
part) was, according to F.B.J. Kuiper, a heavily prefixing language
typologically close to and apparently related to the Munda languages
(Michael Witzel calls it "Para-Munda"). That hypothetical language
accounts for a large number of substrate loans of the early Rigvedic
period. The first contacts of the Indo-Aryans with post-Indus
populations were with Para-Munda speakers, the earliest Dravidian
loans appearing in the middle and late Rigvedic periods (roughly, the
latter half of the second millennium BC), as the Dravida moved from
the deserted areas of Sindh towards the Panjab. From that time on,
Dravidian influence on Indo-Aryan increased.
> >
> > Zvelebil derives the Dravida from the highlands of eastern Iran;
linguistic palaeontology suggests that they were semi-nomadic
herders. It may be significant that the Dravida had their own "horse"
words (Witzel suggests that they may have been the first horse-users
in the Indus cultural area) but borrowed their wagon and chariot-
related vocabulary from the Indo-Aryans. If they came to Sindh via
southeastern Iran and Baluchistan (a more southerly route than that
taken later by the Indo-Aryans), one can see why there is no
linguistic evidence of pre-migration borrowings in either direction.
If the Dravida came from Central Asia or belonged originally to a
chain of related cultures extending into the steppes, they must have
left that area before the arrival of Indo-European peoples there.
> >
> > Piotr
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: jpisc98357@...
> > To: cybalist@...
> > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 4:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Dravidian in Persia?
> >
> >
> > Tepe Yahya is the name you are searching for, it is on the land
rout from Elamite Susa during the Bronze Age to Mohenjo Daro and from
there north to Harappa. There was a northern route direct to Bactria
by which tin and lapis caravans followed an established trade. There
is speculation that Elam ruled much of the Iranian platteau before
the arrival of the Indo European tribes in the first millenium and
that they had a land frontier with the Harappan culture(s).
> >
> > Has anyone noted any resemblence between Old Elamite and the
Dravidian languages? There were no Indo Europeans in the area of
South Iran until the ninth C. at the earliest, they would have been
nomadic herders like those in Luristan, a niche that was already
taken. The Lurs were not IE and their territories stood between the
north and Elam.
> >