[tied] Re: When Germani?

--- In cybalist@..., celteuskara@... wrote:

> God Aften, Torsten!
>
> >Vae victis yourself. Where are those "chronologically impossible
> >places" that "Odin" (as opposed to Odin) pops up?
> >
>
> You really are saying that Wodenaz or whatever we're to be calling

him at this stage really represents some real feller who lead such
easily reconstructable folk movements that were really so swift in
succession?? I had thought Snorri and Saxo were repeating some sort
of vague memory, but if you'l forgive me I'm a little sceptical as to
your theory. I am intrigued though.

>
> I know nothing about such matters but does anyone else here want to

offer their version of the time depth of Germanic in the North?
Putting it back only to Pompey's day seems a little fanciful to me.
I thought we'd been knocking around since the Linearbandkeramik?

>
> I've read a few of your Celtic Jutland posts, too and once again I

become a little bemused. I'm all for the development of radical new
ideas, but your ideas seem only to hinge on a few placenames.
Shouldn't we more cautiously put these down to one stray Celtic band
of lost adventurers rather than to an entire substrate population [if
they indeed are Celtic at all and I'd like to see some attempts at a
Germanic etymology].
Of?

Maybe you're just a little jealous of England's wealth of Celtic
toponymy? ;o)
Nah, it's okay, you can keep them. As far as I know, all of the
Danish placenames are Germanic, supposedly, except for the names of
rivers and straits and islands. But some of the Germanic
reconstructions do look unconvincing.

>
> >BTW Benveniste doesn't mention German <weihen> "consecrate" etc in
> >his discussion of Lat. <vinco>, <victima> etc. To turn

Benvenistish:

> >doesn't the Germanic idea of "consecrating" the enemy by throwing

a

> >spear at his army mean that from now on, they're "dead men

walking"?

> >(Funny how can find these proto-things well preserved in the USA,
> >wile they're dead in the old land, "luck" is another example.)
>
> Nice idea, but what do you mean by this 'luck' thingy?

Americans (at least those I met, not the high-culture kind) believe
in luck, being in luck or out of luck etc. That was my impression,
but I might be wrong.

>
> >Which reminds me: Brennus' "vae victis" is sufficiently simple an
> >utterance and Italic and Celtic then sufficiently close that he

may

> >have uttered it in Celtic and yet be understood. Did he really
> >mean: "Forget this. Kill <vae> the "victims" " (as <fas> is)?
> >
>
> If only!
>
> Beinn Mac an Gheairr
> [Berg Kortssen, if you prefer!]
>
> >Vae victis.
>
>

Torsten