From: João Simões Lopes Filho
Message: 3803
Date: 2000-09-17
----- Original Message -----
From: Glen Gordon <glengordon01@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Religion
>
> John:
> >There is little evidence of the effect of technologically Red Hot
> >Balkans on the equally technologically Red Hot Mesopotamians of the
> >same period
>
> I'm sorry John, what period?? 7000 BCE? No. 6000 BCE? Maybe. 5000 BCE? You
> may be right (but too late for the beginnings of SemitoEuropoid myth so
too
> bad for you). Do you think somehow that agriculture DIDN'T spread to
Europe
> from Anatolia at 6000 BCE?! This is evidence of Eurasian interaction in
> itself! Don't be daft. Your emotional pleas are going on deaf ear.
>
> John makes further cute quotes like the following:
>
> >Glen, pre-exilic Sheol was not associated with the colour red.
> >[...] The association with fire only came after contact with the
Iranians.
>
> >Baal was never a "God of the Underworld". Rather he was a weather
> >god, (eg. "a thunderbolt weilder") son of El (Semitic father god).
>
> What of Babylonian deity Nergal, the fire god, associated with Mars (the
> fire star), king of the Underworld? Is he Iranian too then? Check out the
> following link:
>
> http://www.good.co.uk/oneworld/sumeria.html
>
> It says that Baal truely _IS_ "the UNDERWORLD or mountain god, the son of
El
> or Dagon whose sister Anath was goddess of WAR but much later he was also
> associated with the rain and fertility." He "declared that he would no
> longer recognise the supremacy or authority of Mot (DEATH)" We have the
> underworld, war and death, all in the same paragraph. I particularly like
> the sentence later on saying, "When [Mot] refused [Anath] tore Mot limb
from
> limb with a knife, scattering his pieces and grinding him in a mill and
> finally BURNING his remains in an OVEN" My god, looks like fire!!! The
> relationship with fire may be one of cremation. This automatically creates
> an association between fire and the underworld of the dead that Mot rules.
>
> Gee. How might we blaim Mot, Baal AND Nergal with Sheol, all on our
beloved
> Iranians now, John? Do you know what you're talking about at all? And your
> Iranian excuse only brings up another important question: "How the hell
> would Iranian's have a fire myth at all if it weren't for the IndoEuropean
> mythos and further why would the IEs have a firey underworld view at all
if
> the underworld was clearly watery??"
> Nice try.
>
> >Do tell. Monotheism was a creation of the Jewish religion only after
> >the Babylonian captivity. Before then they were as polytheistic as
> >the next person. No evidence of Monotheism in Akkadian, Eblaite,
> >Canaanite or Aramaean areas Glen.
>
> John, I clearly said time and time again already that the Semitoid
religions
> were NOT monotheistic. Only the Old European ones. Reread, my friend, get
> out the glasses. And the Semitish didn't have to travel either because
this
> myth (like all information technology) radiates outwards naturally despite
> human movement or linguisto-cultural identity.
>
> >Come on Glen, please start talking about real research, based on
> >evidence and sources rather than fanciful reconstructions based on
> >god knows what (is Winnapeg too cold for Columbian crops?)
>
> What would you know of Winnipeg? You can't even spell it properly :)
>
> - gLeN
>
>
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