Re: Placement of 'api' similar to in English?

From: KHANH TRONG HUYNH
Message: 4751
Date: 2016-09-21

Dear Chris,

As a member of Indo-European language family like English, the noun and adjective of Pali could be used mutually.  That rule is even more common in Pali than in Modern English.  As if in English, you could say "a good man" and "a goodness man" with no difference.

Of course, the rule is not followed unlimitedly.

Sincerely yours,


From: "Chris Valade cjvalade@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [palistudy] Placement of 'api' similar to in English?

 
Thank you Balaj and Khanh!

Good to know that a modifying word tends to modify the word it's near, and also interesting about 'api' usually meaning it is included in a list or collection: is there another Pāḷi word for 'also, as well as' that would be better suited in this context?

Balaj, I'm curious about what you mean when you say that you take a more conversational approach?

As for "sādhu" not being a noun--thanks for pointing this out, Khanh, it seems to be another error in Nārada's work. Nārada introduces "sādhu" as being both a masc. noun and an adj., meaning, respectively, "good man" and "good." I checked with the DPR and it shows it as an adv., indc. (seems a particle), and an interjection, no mention of a noun. Putting "Sādhavo" into google resulted in hits in the Bhagavad Gita, and "sādhu" brought up the Wiki entry for the Sanskrit word saying that it means a good or holy man in Hinduism--from what I can gather, Nārada Thera was also a Sanskrit scholar, so it seems an easy slip to make. It does seem that there are some vocabulary errors in Nārada's work, but I won't fret about this too much and instead just keep it in mind (the one's I've come across so far are minimal and mostly due to oversimplification, which is mostly a good thing in an elementary work--no need to give a comprehensive definition of the words being introduced as that can be, and is better, fleshed out later).

Good to know about 'santa,' I'll be adding that to my vocab =D

I do understand that since these are exercises they are going to be a bit artificial, and also that since the vocabulary introduced so far is by necessity going to be limited, that a perfect Pāḷi sentence is going to be beyond me in a number of cases, but trying to get the most out of them that I can =P

Mettā,
Chris

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 8:12 PM, KHANH TRONG HUYNH testsuda@... [palistudy] <palistudy@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Dear Chris,

According to my knowledge, in Pali one word usually inclines to attribute the closer words of it not the farer, so your first sentence seems more correct.

Although sadhu is an adjective meaning "good", I have never seen it be used in some sorts of context as you formed your sentences.  Instead, I often see the word "santa" in that position.

Because almost the Pali literature is also the Theravada Buddhism literature, so most of the Pali sentences we learn and analyse...  are in the context of Buddhism.  It is difficult to know by which way Pali was used in other natural contexts, for example:  in business negotiating in ancient time.  Certainly, with the grammar, we could form Pali sentences for our own, but they are rather artificial.

Sincerely yours,



From: "Chris Valade cjvalade@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 6:26 AM
Subject: [palistudy] Placement of 'api' similar to in English?

 
I'm pretty sure both of the following are correct translations into Pāḷi of, "If a good person were to associate with a wicked person, he may also become a wicked person:"

"Sace sādhu asādhunā saddhiŋ bhajeyya, so'pi asādhu bhaveyya."
"Sace sādhu asādhunā saddhiŋ bhajeyya, so asādhu api bhaveyya."

Am I correct in believing that the distinction between is the same as between the English variations: "he may also become a wicked person" vs, "he may become a wicked person also."

Mettā,
Chris





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