Re: Bāhusaccamahattaṃ

From: petra kieffer-pülz
Message: 4381
Date: 2015-08-15

Dear Florent,

it means that there are individuals (puggala) among the bhikkhus who understand things not properly, and therefore bring into agreement/unite/mix up the nature of one thing with the nature of another thing. The ṭīkā explanation refers to bringing into agreement the natures of touches of animate with that of inanimate objects. I would understand as follows: 

Rasena rasa sasanditvā ti sabhāvena sabhāva sasanditvā;

anuññātapaccattharaṇādīsu sukhasamphassasāmaññato upādinnaphassarase pi anavajjasaññitāya anupādinnaphassarasena upādinnaphassarasa sasanditvā, samānabhāva upanetvā ti attho.

 

Having brought into agreement [one] essence with [another] essence means: having brought into agreement [one] nature with [another] nature; because of the generality of pleasant contacts with respect to allowed [things] such as spreadings, having brought into agreement, even in case of the essence of contacts with animated [objects] – because of (or: with) [one’s] conception as blameless – the essence of contacts with animated [objects] with the essence of contacts with inanimate [objects]; having presented [them as having] the same substance, [this is] the meaning.



Hope that helps,

Petra Kieffer-Pülz


Am 15.08.2015 um 06:12 schrieb florent.robert@... [palistudy]:

 


Dear Group,

I recently came across a Sutta (pārājikapāḷi, verañjakaṇḍaṃ, par. 21) where the Buddha enumerates the 4 reasons that will cause the Sangha to be defiled : (1) rattaññumahattaṃ
, (2) vepullamahattaṃ, (3) lābhaggamahattaṃ, (4) bāhusaccamahattaṃ.


I looked up the commentary for the last term and it says:

bāhusaccamahattanti bāhusaccassa mahantabhāvaṃ. saṅgho hi yāva na bāhusaccamahattaṃ patto hoti, tāva na āsavaṭṭhānīyā dhammā uppajjanti. bāhusaccamahattaṃ patte pana yasmā ekampi nikāyaṃ, dvepi ... pe ... pañcapi nikāye uggahetvā ayoniso ummujjamānā puggalā rasena rasaṃ saṃsanditvā uddhammaṃ ubbinayaṃ satthusāsanaṃ dīpenti. atha satthā “yo pana bhikkhu evaṃ vadeyya — tathāhaṃ bhagavatā dhammaṃ desitaṃ ājānāmi ... pe ... samaṇuddesopi ce evaṃ vadeyyā”tiādinā (pāci. 418) nayena sikkhāpadaṃ paññapetīti.


which I attempted to translate as:
As long as the Sangha has not reached great learning, dhammas caused by (
hānīya) defilements do not arise. However, when great learning will be reached, because they have learned 1, 2,..5 nikayas, some people who understand in the wrong way (ayoniso ummujjamānā is explained by the ṭīkā as viparītato jānamānā) will explain the Teachings of the Buddha in a way which is not in accordance with the Dhamma (uddhamma) and the Vinaya (ubbinaya).

I have left aside rasena rasaṃ saṃsanditvā because I can’t make sense of it and the ṭīkā doesn’t really help much: Rasena rasaṃ saṃsanditvāti sabhāvena sabhāvaṃ saṃsanditvā, anuññātapaccattharaṇādīsu sukhasamphassasāmaññato upādinnaphassarasepi anavajjasaññitāya anupādinnaphassarasena upādinnaphassarasaṃ saṃsanditvā, samānabhāvaṃ upanetvāti attho.

Could it mean that those people (and why puggalā here and not bhikkhu since we are talking about the saṅgha ?) mix truth (sabhāva) with truth  in such a way that it leads to confusion ? I don’t know either how to translate the second part of the ṭīkā.


Thank you,


Florent





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