Re: gamanassādānaṃ devaputtā naṃ

Bhante,

Here are a few more versions, with even more variation to consider:

DN-t (Mahāvaggaṭīkā, 6. Mahāgovindasuttavaṇṇanā,
Chakhattiyāamantanāvaṇṇanā): yo vā so gamanassādānaṃ devaputtānaṃ
heṭṭhupariyena paṭimukhaṃ dhāvantānaṃ sirasi, pāde ca
baddhakhuradhārāsamāgamanatopi sīghataratāya atīttaro pavattikkhaṇo,
teneva vinassanasabhāvaṃ.

Dhs-t: gamanassādānaṃ devaputtānaṃ heṭṭhupariyāyena paṭimukhaṃ
dhāvantānaṃ sirasi pāde ca baddhakhuradhārāsannipātato ca parittataro kālo.

Vism-t: tatra hi gamanassādānaṃ devaputtānaṃ heṭṭhupariyena paṭimukhaṃ
dhāvantānaṃ sirasi, pāde ca baddhakhuradhārāsannipātatopi parittako
rūpajīvitindriyassa so khaṇo vutto, cittassa pana ativiya parittataro,
yassa upamāpi natthi.

Vism-t: tathā hi gamanassādānaṃ devaputtānaṃ heṭṭhupariyāyena paṭimukhaṃ
dhāvantānaṃ sirasi pāde ca bandhakhuradhārā sannipātatopi sīghataro
rūpadhammānaṃ nirodho vutto, pageva arūpadhammānaṃ.

> The meaning of this passage is far from transparent to me, but I will
> attempt a translation on the basis of passage 5, which seems to me to
> avoid the flaws in the others. I will show word for word how I am
> translating it:
>
> For extremely brief (ati-ittaro hi) is the occurrence-moment
> (pavattikkhaṇo) even of material phenomena (rūpadhammānampi); it is
> more fleeting (sīghataro) even than the meeting of the razor blades
> bound (baddhakhuradhārāsamāgamatopi) on the head and feet (sirasi pāde
> ca) of the young gods who enjoy travel (gamanassādānaṃ devaputtānaṃ),
> as they are running in opposite directions (paṭimukhaṃ dhāvantānaṃ),
> upward and downward (heṭṭhupariyāyena).
>
> This seems a reasonably accurate rendering of the Pāli, but I have no
> idea what the passage is actually referring to. Could it be some sort
> of astronomical phenomenon? Did Soma Thera have access to some legend
> in the Indian background that he used to interpret the passage in his
> rendering?
>

I have a hard time taking "pāde" as "on the feet"... The Kathaavatthu
tika has a phrase:

     sirasi pādā pacchato cakkhūnīti evaṃ sabbaṃ sabbattha atthīti attho.


which I understand as: "'"the feet are at the head, the eyes are in
behind"  - thus everything is everywhere' is the meaning."

I wonder if it would be better rendered as:

     "It is more fleeting (sīghataro) even (api) than the razor-edge
     (khuradhārā) meeting (samāgamato) which conjoins (baddha) the feet
     (pāde) [of one] at the head (sirasi) [of the other] of [two]
     devaputtas (devaputtānaṃ) who, sporting in going (gamanassādānaṃ),
     are running (dhāvantānaṃ) towards each other (paṭimukhaṃ) from above
     and below (heṭṭhupariyena)."


I am sceptical of the idea of bound razors!  It seems to me more likely
to be a description of the meeting, and that baddha simply refers to the
conjunction.  This translation of course doesn't account for the ca (two
in the case of the Dhs-t).  The only way I can account for the two "ca"s
is by taking it as two separate examples, but I can't figure out what it
might mean then.

On a side note, the MN-t has what looks to be a typo
"baddhadhuradhārāsannipātatopi".

Bryan, I don't see why khuradhārā can't keep its long ā in a compound...
it is feminine after all.  We find khuradhārātikhiṇesu and
khuradhārāsadisāni in the literature which seem obviously to refer to a
razor's blade.

Finally, here's a passage about running devas, which may be what Ven.
Soma was using as a source:

     SN 2, 9. opammasaṃyuttaṃ, 6. dhanuggahasuttaṃ
     yathā ca yā devatā candimasūriyānaṃ purato dhāvanti tāsaṃ devatānaṃ
     javo, tato sīghataraṃ āyusaṅkhārā khiyanti.

     SN-a
     purato dhāvantīti aggato javanti. na panetā sabbakālaṃ puratova
     honti, kadāci purato, kadāci pacchato honti. ākāsaṭṭhakavimānesu hi
     uyyānānipi honti pokkharaṇiyopi, tā tattha nahāyanti, udakakīḷaṃ
     kīḷamānā pacchatopi honti, vegena pana gantvā puna puratova dhāvanti.


Best wishes,

Yuttadhammo




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