Re: Saddatthabhedacintaadiipanii, verse 1

Venerable Bhante Pandita,
op 13-04-2005 13:38 schreef Ven. Pandita op ashinpan@...

>>tattha *saddatthabhedavaadiinan* ti saddabhedavaadii- atthabhedavaadii
-saddatthabhedavaadiihi aacariyehi pavarantyattho. dvandato suyyamaanattaa
ekasesattaa ca.
> [Note: Nina, you should follow the translation I have given here using RG]
N: Thank you, I am glad you draw my attention to it.
Bh:  The phrase "sadda . . .vaadiihi aacariyehi" is
> of ablative case, not of instrumental. When we use RG:
>
> sadda . . .vaadiihi ---> vaadiihi (IAD - Identical Adjective relation:
> see RG - 15)
N: Identical Adjective relation1 (IAD)
Here a noun in adjectival use is related to a noun it modifies. The
adjective must follow the case of the substantive but may differ in gender
and number.
mahataa purisena =...with (a/ the) great man
mahataa ---> purisena (IAD)
***
N: Applying it, is sadda a noun in adjectival use?

Bh: vaadiihi ---> aacariyehi (COC - Contrast Comparison relation: see RG -
11)
N: B. Contrastive Comparison Relation1 (COC)
     When two things or persons have an attributive difference, the noun
expressing the entity of a lesser degree of quality is related to the other
representing
the attribute itself.
E.g, so asmaahi paapiyataro =... He (is) worse than us.
     asmaahi ---> paapiyataro (COC)
     aya.m saccamaggaa a~n~no =... This (path is) different from the path of
truth.
     saccamaggaa ---> a~n~no (COC)

Bh: Then it should be translated as ". . . greater than the teachers who are
> speakers of . . . sadda and attha"
>
> The intent of the commentator is to indicate that the genitive case of
> "saddatthabhedavaadiina.m" takes on the role of ablative case. See
> Kaccaayana sutta (309):  "Dutiyaapa~camiina~nca"
N: This is difficult for me, but perhaps the ti after
saddatthabhedavaadiinan denotes that the commentator wants to elucidate?
I have trouble with the attho: pavarantyattho. Translated as : this is the
meaning?
Bh:  What is "ekasesa"? It is a philosophical attempt to explain a seeming
> inconsistency in the language.
....
> In our case, the commentator indicates by "ekasesattaa" that there are
> actually two forms of "saddatthabhedavaadiina.m" combined into a dvanda
> compound --- one meaning "the speakers of the analysis of sadda, and the
> speakers of the analysis of attha" and another meaning "the speakers of
> the analysis of sadda and attha". Since they have the same form, one is
> dropped.
N: ekasesatta means:  the fact (state) of one left?
Bh:  When we try to translate the verse in accord with the commentary, it
> should be:
>
> "Having saluted the Speaker of the Excellent, who is greater than the
> teachers who speak of the analysis of linguistic forms, than the
> teachers who speak of the analysis of meaning, and than the teachers who
> speak of the analysis of both linguistic forms and meaning . . ."
N: Thank you very much.
With respect,
Nina.