Re: Saddaniti and Kaccayana detailed TOCs

Hi Rett,

> I just found this message I quote from below for the first time as I
> was going back through some previous material. I had thought till
now
> your response to my query was just the bare TOC without comment :-)
> (very cool and Spartan, I thought)

Since your original query I've posted 5 responses plus this one. I
hope you've found them all by now. If not, you can find them in the
group's archives.

> >I also have a detailed one for Vol. I., Padamaalaa but
unfortunately
> >it's still in my handwriting but I will try and type it out on the
> >computer, something I'd been meaning to do for a long time.
>
> Now I see it was perhaps redundant of me to start trying to list
> contents in the Padamaala :-) I hope you can do this, though the
> tedium of typing is known to be mind-numbing.. not to mention what
it
> can do to the tendons in arms and shoulders. Sometimes I feel we
> haven't actually come farther than medieval scribes.

I have it all on 2 sheets of paper, so it's no big deal to type out. I
hope you will find it of some use. They are just rough jottings and I
think the contents I listed need to be checked over which I will do
while typing out. I'll email it to you off-list when I'm done. It
might take awhile.

> I'm not that knowledgable about these schemes, but are these files
> that would be readable on a Mac? I could perhaps start with some of
> the clerical work involved in getting a more detailed TOC ready for
> the Suttamaala.
>
> A big question: do you ever use the Harvard-Kyoto system? At first I
> thought it was a bit strange, but I'm getting used to it and
wouldn't
> mind using it in on-list correspondence. Just a thought. I'm happy
to
> go with the house-rules, whatever they be.

The Velthuis scheme is the most common convention of writing Pali in
email messages and that's what we've been using here. I'm familiar
with the Harvard-Kyoto system which seems to be the one preferred by
Indologists and used for Monier-Williams' online dictionary. I don't
think HKC would be suitable for this list. The files that I have are
plain text files compatible for all types of computers including MACs.
I sometimes send Nina a text file and she has reported no problems on
her iMac.

Before you get started on a TOC for some of the sutta paricchedas, you
might want to check with me first to see if I've got something tucked
away somewhere. I have a text file of the Niruttidiipanii by Le.di
Sayadaw, which is a modern sutta-style Pali grammar based on
Moggallaana's. One of its nice features is that the suttas are
organized into smaller groups called raasi-s and also the suttas come
with cross-references to Sadd, Kc, Ruup, and even to Candragomin's and
Paa.nini's grammars. I thought the raasi grouping very helpful and
started to prepare listings of them awhile ago. Here's a sample for
the taddhitaka.n.da:

5. taddhitaka.n.da [suttas no. 430-560: =131 suttas]

1. apaccaraasi. [430-443: 14]
2. anekattharaasi. [444-471: 28]
3. assatthiraasi. [472-489: 18]
4. bhaava, kammaraasi. [490-494: 5]
5. parimaa.naraasi. [495-503: 9]
6. sa"nkhyaaraasi. [504-516: 13]
7. khuddakaraasi. [517-555: 39]
  7a. pakaararaasi. [517-523: 7]
  7b. kularaasi. [524-6: 3]
  7c. hita, saadhu, araharaasi. [527-35: 9]
  7d. vikatiraasi [536-7: 2]
  7e. visesaraasi. [538-40: 3]
  7f. samuuharaasi. [541-3: 3]
  7g. datta, nibbattaraasi. [544-5: 2]
  7h. la, ita, karaasi. [546-8: 3]
  7i. abhuutatabbhaavaraasi. [549: 1]
  7j. sakattharaasi. [550: 1]
  7k. niddi.t.thapaccayaraasi. [551-2: 2]
  7l. vuddhiraasi. [553: 1]
  7m. loparaasi [554-5: 2]
8. naanaattaraasi. [556-560: 5]

This could be improved by adding in the suffixes. I'm not sure how
hard it would be to prepare something similar for the taddhitakappa in
Sadd though.

[...]

> I've also got a copy of Vasu at home which I've been borrowing from
> the library since early last spring. So far no one seems to have
> missed it. I'm even more of a beginner at Panini's system than at
> Pali vyakarana, but as you say, it's very helpful to learn the idiom
> and techniques of expression of grammatical literature. This latter
> is perhaps more important for our purposes than mastering Panini's
> system as such.

I recently discovered a treasure trove of Sanskrit Vyakarana
literature at sansknet.org where you'll find Bhart.rhari's
Vaakayapadiiya (philosophy of language) with Helaaraaja's commentary
and the complete Kaa"sikaav.rtti with Jinendrabuddhi's and Haridatta's
commentaries (6 vols.!). But the website has its drawbacks with the
devanagari font situation and the slow connection.

> >Anyway, we could perhaps work on this together and try and make
more
> >such tables and indexes available for studying the Saddaniti as
they
> >certainly do make using the text a lot easier. I would like to do
the
> >same for Kaccaayana and have already made a brief table of contents
> >for it.
>
> Yes I think this would be a beneficial project both for us and
> possibly for others as well. I would also like to work with the
> Kaccaayana. For the time being Pali vyakarana is still not my main
> focus, unfortunately. I've still got old projects to complete. But
> I've decided to try to get in at least a couple of decent sessions
> with these texts a week. Your answers so far have been both helpful
> and interesting, and encourage me to continue. Thanks!

Thank you for your interest and input so far. Only involve yourself as
much as you care to and when you have the time. An involvement with
the study of Pali vyakarana can easily become a full-time occupation
as it has for me this past little while. However, it's something that
I don't usually keep up for months and months. Sometimes it's good to
give it a rest at times.

Best wishes,
Jim