Re: Mmd: introductory verses

Hi Rett,

Thanks for your input! As it was long, I haven't respond to all of it
and some parts I have deleted.

<< About 'assa kaccaayanassa' being free-standing and just delineating
the topic 'with regards to this kaccaayana': good question. I don't
know. I did find something in Hinüber (Kasussyntax der Pali) called
the genitivus commodi, which might fit. There the genitive marks _for
whose sake_ an action is taken. He even says that to clarify it, you
can add atthaaya. If it is a case of that it could be expanded to:

assa kaccaayanassa [atthaaya] (for this kaccaayana's sake). >>

Jim:
Thanks also for describing this use of the genitivus commodi which
isn't familiar to me and for the other possibilities. I spent some
time going over the rules governing the use of the sixth case
(genitive) in both Kaccaayana's (8 rules) and Aggava.msa's (34 rules)
grammars and couldn't find any that would support my suggested
'free-standing' one and there doesn't seem to be any for the one you
just described which looks more like a dative to me. Syntax-wise, this
'assa kaccaayanassa' is the most problematic in the verse. I've been
taking another look at your first translation: "Relying on the
received-teaching of this Kaccaayana". This genitve relation of
'upadesa' to 'Kaccaayana' might work: ''relying on the (traditional)
teaching of this Kaccaayana (as handed down)". A question comes up,
however, as to whether it's correct to call this: "Kaccaayana's
traditional teaching or instruction" as I'm sure it had collected a
lot of commentary from others along the way.

[...]

Rett:
<< This still leaves open the question of what exactly nicchaya and
vinicchaya mean here, so I still just translate with 'investigations'
as a placeholder for now. >>

Jim:
I saw in the Saddaniiti (7.1.3.1) the two terms placed together as if
they were synonyms. I also remembered that some of the chapter titles
in the Padamaala begin with 'savinicchayo'. My guess is that a
'nicchaya~n~nuu' is someone who studies, understands, teaches, and
passes on the vinicchayas.

Rett:
<< I'm pretty sure that 'upadesa' refers to oral instruction, or a
book
written in a form that resembles this oral instruction, i.e. where a
short statement is given, which is then explained at length in prose.
(Perhaps it also suggest instruction for relative beginners???) >>

Jim:
I looked up 'upadesa' in the CPD and saw under 2b.: "traditional
instruction" with a reference to Abhidhaanappadiipikaa, v. 412 which
associates it with the word 'paarampariya.m'. I then looked up its
.tiikaa and found the following:

412. pajjaddha.m upadesaparamparaaya.m. pare ca pare ca paramparaa,
pubbaacariyaa. tato aabhata.m paarampariya.m. . . . aacariya.m
upagantvaa dissati uccaariiyatiiti upadeso,  disii uccaara.ne, .no.

It is certainly helpful to find something like this as it shows a
clear relation of three words (paaramparaa, aabhata, upadesa) found in
the Mmd verse. This suggests to me that 'paaramparaa' (but paramparaa
in Abh) refers to the succession of ancient teachers (pubbaacariyaa)
from which the vinicchayas were passed along to the later
nicchaya~n~nuus.

Rett:
<< I would still like to leave open possibilities, like that katassa
takes -upadesa as its genitive object, or that -ññuu is the end of
its compund and is congruent with aha.m. But I agree with you, it
seems tough to get a satisfactory final answer. >>

Fair enough. I don't think the syntax problem is anywhere near being
solved. I don't know about you but I think I've gone about as far as I
can go on this and would be quite happy to set this matter aside for
another time when I have (hopefully) a better understanding of Pali
syntax.

Best wishes,
Jim