Re: kulaputta

--- In palistudy@yahoogroups.com, nina van gorkom <nilo@...> wrote:
> Dear Amara,
> good to see you here.
> op 09-01-2004 05:11 schreef Amara op joychay@...:
>
> > I would like to consult you and the list on another small matter as
> > well:  Lately some friends and I have been doing some translations and
> > came across the word 'kulaputta' which has been translated as
> > 'clansman', which we thought was a bit too wide, closer perhaps to the
> > word 'gotara'.  I know the closest ot 'kula' would be 'family', which
> > would make 'kulaputta' something like 'son of a [good] family', which
> > we have been using so far.  Perhaps the meaning is more like
> > 'gentleman', for example.  Some of us are leaning towards 'man of
> > lineage' as best choice of the possibilities, at the moment; could you
> > please give us your opinion?
> N: I came accross it when translating from Thai parts of the Co. to the
> Dhatuvibhangasutta, M III, no 140, Pukkussati who had gone forth and
was in
> the Potter's shed. He is referred to as kulaputta, the young man of
noble
> family. I was surprised and asked Kom. Kom said, monks can be
referred to as
> such. In that way we can take this, depending on the context, in a
higher
> sense: belonging to the family of the noble ones, of the Sangha.
> Nina.


Dear Nina,

Thank you for this elegant explanation of 'kulaputta', which makes me
think of how ordination is sometimes compared to leaving one's birth
family to be reborn in the sasana.  It also reminds me that the Buddha
called a number of the arahants his children.  More in detail, in the
magga vithi vara there is the citta called 'change of lineage' or
something to that effect, if I remember correctly.  Which makes me
prefer 'lineage' for the possible translation of this word. 'Son of
the ariyans' is very tempting as alternative, but a bit too narrow, I
think, since very often kulaputta is applied to unordained people,
such as Yasa before he entered the order.  Ariyans can also seem too
wide if you think of the entire Indian nation.  Again, the closest may
be 'son of a [good] family'. For comparison, the thais have a phrase,
'mii sahgoun [roun chaahd]': the first half meaning of 'belonging to a
family' as well, but the connotation is very possitive, more precisely
a 'good' family, in other words 'well bred'. 

I really appreciate your help, anumodana also with your studies and
teachings, in fact with all your great kusala, as always,

Amara