Re: update

Dear Amara,

> Dear Jim and Yong Peng,
>
> I'm very happy to hear that we will be studying more Paali, I really
> look forward to the continuation of grammar lessons.
>
> I would like to consult you and the list on another small matter as
> well:  Lately some friends and I have been doing some translations
and
> came across the word 'kulaputta' which has been translated as
> 'clansman', which we thought was a bit too wide, closer perhaps to
the
> word 'gotara'.

I think it would help if you give a reference to where in the texts
you came across this word 'kulaputta' or any other word you wish to
bring up in the future. The word 'gotara' is unfamiliar to me and
there is no listing of it in PED as far as I can see. Perhaps you
meant 'gotta'?

   I know the closest ot 'kula' would be 'family', which
> would make 'kulaputta' something like 'son of a [good] family',
which
>  we have been using so far.  Perhaps the meaning is more like
> 'gentleman', for example.  Some of us are leaning towards 'man of
> lineage' as best choice of the possibilities, at the moment; could
you
> please give us your opinion?

The 'putta' part has the meaning of 'son' but 'kula' is somewhat
unclear to me as I don't know much about its meaning or perhaps it has
several meanings. At Vin III 8, the Buddha says regarding the rapid
disappearance of the Brahma-faring: "ye te pacchimaa saavakaa
naananaamaa naanagottaa naanajaccaa naanakulaa pabbajitaa, ..." which
IB Horner translates as: "those last disciples of various names, of
various clans, of various social strata, who had gone forth from
various families, ..." and the commentary (Sp I 187) on this explains
'various names' as Buddharakkhito, Dhammarakkhito, etc., 'various
clans' as Gotamo, Moggallaano, etc., 'various social strata' as noble,
brahmin, etc. (which seems to be referring to the va.n.na classes),
and 'various families' such as a noble family, etc. or a high, low, or
illustrious familiy, or a family of great wealth, and so on. Perhaps
this might help a little. I'm sure one could spend a whole day digging
up quite a bit more. My preference is for 'son of a good family', but
a lot depends on how familiar one is with the Pali term and I have to
admit I'm not all that familiar with it so far. I tend to be uncertain
about the best choice of a word for a translation and I usually end up
just going along with the more widely accepted ones unless I have a
good reason to disagree. I would then state my case in a footnote.

> Or perhaps we should discuss this on your other list?

You're welcome to raise such questions here every now and again but
not so often as to cause long delays in the study of Kaccayana's
grammar as there's only so much I can do at any one time. However,
others are welcome to jump in and discuss with you any topic relating
to Pali without me necessarily getting involved.

Best wishes,
Jim