Re: [Warder

op 05-07-2002 22:43 schreef onco111 op dhd5@...:
Robert, Thank you for the Sandhi lis. As you say, we read it over, not
trying to memorize it. We shall meet enough of them in the texts.
Dan:  
> --> Dan: I'm just starting lesson 7 (slow going the past few days
> with the holiday this week). At this point, I'm reading through
> everything and only half-way memorizing the grammar. The vocabulary
> I'm not explicitly memorizing, but I am reading through all the
> exercises, several times, doing both the Pali->English and the
> English->Pali,
N: I have an old book, 1963, and here they do not give the answers to the
exercises, nor to they give the references where you can find the suttas.
But it is O.K. 
> Funny how translations can get really mixed up by a beginner when
> there is no context for the sentence. For example, in lesson 3 Warder
> translates "upaasaka.m braahman dhaareti" as "he accepts the priest
> as a lay disciple." I had "He remembers the brahmin lay disciple."
N: I would think, he takes the laydisciple for a brahmin. Brahmin stands
close to dhaareti.
Dan:  Another one: "attha.m dhaareti," which Warder has as "He remembers
> the meaning," while I thought about "He has wealth."
N: The context is too short, not a real sentence. I found attha.m meaning,
occurs very often in the texts.
>
Dan:  I do have a couple of questions that you might be able to help me
> with. In lesson 5, Warder talks about how a double negative is
> equivalent to a strong affirmation. [Interesting... In English, it's
> usually a weak affirmation, and in Greek it would be a strong
> negation!] In lesson 6, he then gives the sentence, "n' eso h' atthii
> ti vadaami," which he translates as "I don't say, 'This doesn't
> exist.'" I'd think a strong affirmation would sound something like
> this: "I say, 'This surely exists.'" How can we tell that the
> first 'na' negates the 'vadaami' instead of doubling the second 'na'?
N: I think instead of the h' it must be a n" : n'eso n'atthii ti vadaami.
Pali is so direct with these ti sentences, thus, the effect is stronger. It
should be read aloud.
The first na negates the vadaami because we see the ti which is the
quotation, the whole sentence after n' belongs together.
Dan:  Also, in lesson 6 he introduces the "Imperative Tense." I've always
> learned that 'imperative' was a 'mood' (along with indicative,
> subjunctive, optative) , but tenses were more time oriented (like
> present, imperfect, future, past, pluperfect, etc.) I can see a
> temporal sense in the imperative (somewhat future-ish), but it still
> seems peculiar... Surely, the subjunctive can't be called a tense
> too, can it?
N: I believe we follow here the Indian grammar. I do not find this a
problem, I do not compare with English now, otherwise we do not get the feel
of the Pali language.
Best wishes, Nina.