Re: greetings and a couple of questions

Dear Group: I've been noticing over the past 24 hours or so that some of the
messages posted to psg are taking a very long time to come through to me. It
looks like there is some logjam with Yahoo or Yahoogroups.

Hi Dan,

<< Thanks, Jim. This is all very helpful. I've learned: (1) the PTS
dictionary is good but not too expensive, (2) compounds don't
necessarily equal the sum of the parts (bhavatanhaa is not the same
as "craving for bhava"), (3) pasting Pali text into posts isn't hard,
(4) translations can be misleading, and (5) 'Palistudy' is a nice
place to hang out. >>

It's nice to hear what you've learned so far.

<< I checked again on the Nyanmoli translation (from "Life of the
Buddha"), and I do think I got the Pali excerpt right. Here's a bit
more of the context (from Vin. Mv. 1:6(15)): [Numbers are mine]
[1] Ida.m dukkhanirodhagaaminii pa.tipadaa ariyasaccanti me,
bhikkhave, pubbe ananussutesu dhammesu cakkhu.m udapaadi, ~naa.na.m
udapaadi, pa~n~naa udapaadi, vijjaa udapaadi, aaloko udapaadi. [2]
ta.m kho panida.m dukkhanirodhagaaminii pa.tipadaa ariyasacca.m
bhaavetabbanti me, bhikkhave, pubbe ananussutesu dhammesu cakkhu.m
udapaadi, ~naa.na.m udapaadi, pa~n~naa udapaadi, vijjaa udapaadi,
aaloko udapaadi. [3] ta.m kho panida.m dukkhanirodhagaaminii
pa.tipadaa ariyasacca.m bhaavitanti me, bhikkhave, pubbe
ananussutesudhammesu cakkhu.m udapaadi, ~naa.na.m udapaadi, pa~n~naa
udapaadi, vijjaa udapaadi, aaloko udapaadi.

     I believe this is the passage Nyanamoli translates as:
[1] "'There is this noble truth of the way leading to the cessation
of suffering': such was the insight, the knowledge, the
understanding, the vision, the light, that arose in me about things
not heard before. [2] 'This noble truth must be penetrated to by
maintaining in being* the way leading to the cessation of suffering':
such was the insight, the knowledge, the understanding, the vision,
the light, that arose in me about things not heard before. [3] 'This
noble truth has been penetrated to by maintaining in being the way
leading to the cessation of suffering': such was the insight, the
knowledge, the understanding, the vision, the light, that arose in me
about things not heard before."

* Nyanaponika apparently thought the translation of [2] unusual, so
he added a footnote here stating simply: "bhaavetabba.m: 'must be
cultivated, developed.'"

Any suggestions about [2]?

Dan >>

Thanks for providing a larger section of Nyanamoli's translation and the
text which certainly helps put things into perspective and I can now agree
that you had selected the right Pali quote after all. I also agree with
Nyanaponika that Nyanamoli's translation of the passage in question is
unusual. His translation of "bhavetabba.m" as "must be penetrated to by
maintaining in being" does not make much sense to me. "must be penetrated"
would be "pa.tivijjhitabba.m" in Pali. "pa.tivedha" is often translated as
"penetration" as in "penetration into the truth(s)" (saccapa.tivedha). I
also notice that he has left "ta.m kho pana" untranslated. I think I would
translate "bhaavetabba.m" simply as "is to be developed".

A suggestion:
Nyanamoli has a translation of the Dhammacakkappavattanasutta in The Path of
Discrimination. It would be interesting to see how he has translated the
passage in question for comparison. If you don't have access to that book,
perhaps Robert could check it out for us (it's in the Treatise on
Discriminations). You could also try looking at how others have translated
it. The sutta is also found in the Sa.myuttanikaaya (vol. 5 -- LVI.11).

Jim




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