Re: consciousness unestablished

op 17-07-2001 00:49 schreef Jim Anderson op jimanderson_on@...:


> I think you are right here. It appears that the '-kaara.naa' is just to show
> a special use of the instrumental case and I think it applies to the whole
> phrase ie. 'because of consciousness being unestablished'. I had considered
> that possibility from the start but when I saw the subcom. giving a
> different use of the instr. (itthambhuutalakkha.na) I then thought
> 'kaara.naa' had to mean something else and that the com. might be making
> some philosophical point which I couldn't comprehend. But why does the com.
> give one use while the subcom. gives another? I now think that the com. has
> given the use of the two words together in relation to the whole sentence
> while the subcom. has given the instrumental relation between
> 'consciousness' and 'unestablished'. I think your 'being' may be expressing
> the subcom. use (itthambhuuta - being this way). The Saddaniti gives the ex.
> bhinnena siisena -- 'with a head become broken' or simply 'with a broken
> head'.
Nina: After your remarks, I shall try:

With consciousness unestablished the clansman Vakkali passed finally away.

Co: appati.t.t.hitenaati pa.tisandhivi~~naanena appati.t.thitena.

with consciousness <unestablished>, with the rebirth-consciousness not
re-established.

appati.t.thikaara.naa ti attho.
because of being unestablished, is the meaning.

subco: appati.thitenaa ti patit.tha.m alabhantena.

<by being unestablished>, by not obtaining establishment (literally:
established).

itthambhuutalakkhane eta.m kara.navacana.m, anuppattidhammenaa ti attho.

This wording gives the reason  that consciousness has this kind of
characteristic, that it has the nature of no rebirth. This is the meaning.

Sati hi uppaade pati.t.thita.m naama siyaa, a.t.thakathaaya.m pana yadeva
tassa vi~n~naan.nassa appati.t.thaanakaara.na.m, tadeva
parinibbaanakaara.nan ti vutta.m appati.t.thitakaara.naa ti.

If there would be rebirth, it would indeed be established, but in the
commentary the condition of no foundation is stated, in so far as it is the
condition of the final passing away, thus the condition for being
unestablished.

Remarks: I thought that in translation the yad and tad should better be
turned around, just as yena...tena... I was not sure whether the vutta.m
refers to the preceding or following. Nina.