Re: bhavangacitta

Dear Jim,
I just like to add that Nina did not mention in this
reply about object for bhavanga citta which is very
important.It is gati or kamma nimmita for bhavanga.It
seems Nina no need to mention about vipaka for those
present moment of eye,ear,profitable/unprofitable in
this mail since this mail is about bhavanga.That is a
sure thing about citta vithi.Cuti,patisandhi and
bhavanga citta will have same object after 11 moment
for mind door or 15 moment for 5 door like seeing etc
of uncomplete cittavithi during the rebirth vithi .It
is not through six doors for the bhavanga ,cuti and
patisandhi to experience the object but only their own
types of resultant citta with kamma or gati
nimmita.The 42-49 of vipaka citta like bhavanga are
indeed in six doors for registration function besides
bhavanaga and cuti if this is what you mean in
dhammasagani com.
I think people 4 people reborn with joy feeling as
bhavanga citta will have a more cheerful
personality(inferior?) but the contrast for the other
four upekkha people.
Teng Kee
--- Nina van Gorkom <nilo@...> wrote:
> op 14-07-2001 13:49 schreef Ong Teng Kee op
> ongtkee@...:
>
> >
> > It seems to me bhavanga is passive .Feeling are in
> > javana but not bhavangacitta. I read this in
> > Visuddhimagga.How can bhavanga experience
> something?
> > The feeling accompany in bhavanga will be the same
> in
> > 8 kusala javana,9 rupa arupa and the other two but
> it
> > is passive as mentioned in VM.
> >
> > --- "m. nease" <mlnease@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> This question highlights a question I've had
> since
> >> beginning to read Nina's work--what is it that
> makes
> >> 'an unpleasant object' unpleasant?  By that I
> don't
> >> mean 'vipaka'--I mean intrinsically in the
> object.
> >> Probably this is a semantic misunderstanding on
> my of
> >> part.
> >>
> >> --- Jim Anderson <jimanderson_on@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> It seems to me that bhavangacitta would not be
> able
> >> to
> >> experience an
> >> unpleasant object because that would entail an
> >> accompanying unpleasant
> >> feeling.  From my understanding, only somanassa
> or
> >> upekkha feelings can
> >> accompany a bhavangacitta. Is this right or
> wrong?
> >>
> >> Dear Jim and all,
> >
> > Jim is right that only somanassa and upekkhā can
> accompany pa.tisandhicitta,
> > bhavangacitta and cuti-citta. This does not mean
> that the bhavangacitta that
> > is akusala vipāka cannot experience an unpleasant
> object, it does so,  since
> > it is the result of akusala kamma. This does not
> entail an accompanying
> > domanassa vedanaa, which feeling accompanies only
> the two types of
> > dosa-múlacitta. Vipāka should be distinguished
> from akusala citta. The
> bhavangacitta
> > is vipākacitta, and, since it is citta it must
> experience an object, there is
> > no citta that does not experience an object. Citta
> "thinks" of an object
> > (cintati), it clearly cognizes an object.
> > Seeing arising now is vipākacitta, it experiences
> either a pleasant object or
> > an unpleasant object, but how could we find this
> out, since vipāka is so
> > short. There are so many moments of them
> experiencing objects through the six
> > doors. Robert has given examples before,
> illustrating the many different
> > moments of vipāka and how difficult to distinguish
> between them. Seeing is
> > accompanied by upekkhā, also when the object is
> unpleasant. Afterwards dosa
> > accompanied by unpleasant feeling can arise. Is it
> important to know whether
> > an object is pleasant or unpleasant? Speculation
> does not help us at this
> moment, it has happened already when vipaakacitta
> has arisen and fallen
> away. It matters more whether there is wise
> > attention or unwise attention to it. When, in the
> course of life, the
> > vipākacitta that is kāyavi~n~naana arises, it is
> accompanied by either
> > dukkhavedanaa or by sukhavedanaa, because the
> impact is more violent, it is
> > not accompanied by upekkhaa. But, these feelings
> are just vipaaka, they are
> > not accompanying kusala citta or akusala citta.
> > When akusala kamma produces rebirth in hell, many
> moments of
> > body-consciousness that is akusala vipāka are
> bound to arise, accompanied by
> > dukkha vedanā that is vipāka.  And then followed
> by akusala cittas accompanied
> > by domanassa. These arise in processes in the
> course of life, they are
> > different from bhavangacitta.
> Thank you very much, Jim, for sending the Co and
> subco, I shall use these as
> my exercises, very interesting. Jon suggested that I
> would translate the co
> and subco about unestablished for dsg, but  I feel
> relieved that you are
> working on it. I can use these just as my exercises.
> Kaara.naa: I thought:
> by reason of, thus: because of being unestablished.
>
>
> 
>
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>




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