Re: Anyobody know this sutta?

Thanks also, Jim and Robert,

Have I missed something (I've just skimmed this so
maybe I have) but where does the original question re.
'avenues' come in?  I can't find a connection between
aayatanaa and avenues.

Thanks in advance,

mike

--- Robert Kirkpatrick
<robertkirkpatrick@...> wrote:
> JIM,
> This is really helpful. I hate to be a cause of work
> for you but
> really this is a very interesting sutta. The
> definition of
> aayatana as efficient cause in this case is very
> useful.
> thanks
> robert
>
> --- Jim Anderson <jimanderson_on@...> wrote:
> > Dear Robert, (Mike, see at the end)
> >
> > >Dear Jim.
> > >Thanks Jim.
> > >I checked metta.lk - it is one of the few digha
> suttas NOT
> > translated
> > >and they have not yrt translated the anguttara at
> all.
> > >Also accesstoinsight have neither the digha or
> the anguttara
> > >translation.
> > >I have the patisambhidhimagga translation but
> that is too
> > terse!
> > >
> > >However, do not worry about it as soon i will be
> in new
> > zealnd and
> > >will pick up my copies of these volumes. At least
> now thanks
> > to you
> > >and teng kee i know exactly where to look.
> > >Just one question - does the letter extract I
> posted give an
> > accurate
> > >representation of the sutta and the 5
> vimuttiayatana or not?
> > >'yes' 'no' or 'sort of' will do fine.
> > >thanks
> > >robert
> >
> > Here's the extract:
> > << """ the Anguttara-Nikaya that
> > mentions 5 VIMUTTI-AYATANA ("Avenues of
> Liberation"). The 5
> > include
> > BHAVANA (meditation) along with listening to
> Dhamma talks,
> > giving
> > Dhamma
> > talks, reciting Dhamma (e.g. chanting), &
> reflecting
> > systematically on
> > Dhamma. The meaning is that the mind can realize
> reality (=
> > Dhamma) &
> > release itself from clinging during any of these
> > activities""""" >>
> >
> > There is some similarity but one really has to
> read and study
> > the entire
> > sutta which is hard to sum up briefly. But here
> are some of
> > the basic points
> > from Rhys Davids' DN 33 translation:
> >
> > 1. when a Master or a reverend fellow disciple
> teaches the
> > Norm to a brother
> >     . . .
> > 2. while he himself teaching others the Norm in
> detail . . .
> > 3. when he is reciting the doctrines of the Norm
> in detail . .
> > .
> > 4. when he applies his thought to the Norm . . .
> > 5. when he has well grasped some given clue
> (nimitta) to
> > concentration,
> >     has well applied his understanding, has well
> thought it
> > out, has well
> >     penetrated it by intuition (pa~n~naa) . . .
> >
> > I tried reading the Pali original with com. and
> subcom. and
> > find it a
> > difficult sutta to understand clearly. All five
> ayatanas seem
> > to involve
> > samadhi and attainment of arahattaphala. aayatana
> is
> > understood to mean
> > efficient cause (kaara.na) acc. to com.
> >
> > I hope this will be of some help until you get a
> hold of your
> > books in NZ.
> >
> > Mike, you wrote: << So I'm off-base looking for
> ayana (nt.
> > path) for
> > 'avenue' rather than aayatana? >>
> >
> > Yes, I'm afraid you're off-base here but I can see
> how you
> > might associate
> > 'avenue' with 'way' (ayana as in ekaayana).
> aayatana has been
> > translated in
> > so many different ways that it makes it a hard one
> to
> > translate. You can
> > find the Vimutti Sutta at G.S. iii 15ff.  Thanks
> for your
> > input.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
>
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