Re: Anyobody know this sutta?

dear Mike,
I think if we see aayatana in this case as meaning efficient
cause or  condition and avenue as the road or path then the
meaning is sort of similar. When we want to get somewhere we
take this road or that road- without the road no way to get
there. Avenue  is a fairly unliteral translation though from
what Jim has given us.
I would love more about the sutta and commenataries. MAN do we
need more Pali scholars.
robert
--- "m. nease" <mlnease@...> wrote:
> Thanks also, Jim and Robert,
>
> Have I missed something (I've just skimmed this so
> maybe I have) but where does the original question re.
> 'avenues' come in?  I can't find a connection between
> aayatanaa and avenues.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> mike
>
> --- Robert Kirkpatrick
> <robertkirkpatrick@...> wrote:
> > JIM,
> > This is really helpful. I hate to be a cause of work
> > for you but
> > really this is a very interesting sutta. The
> > definition of
> > aayatana as efficient cause in this case is very
> > useful.
> > thanks
> > robert
> >
> > --- Jim Anderson <jimanderson_on@...> wrote:
> > > Dear Robert, (Mike, see at the end)
> > >
> > > >Dear Jim.
> > > >Thanks Jim.
> > > >I checked metta.lk - it is one of the few digha
> > suttas NOT
> > > translated
> > > >and they have not yrt translated the anguttara at
> > all.
> > > >Also accesstoinsight have neither the digha or
> > the anguttara
> > > >translation.
> > > >I have the patisambhidhimagga translation but
> > that is too
> > > terse!
> > > >
> > > >However, do not worry about it as soon i will be
> > in new
> > > zealnd and
> > > >will pick up my copies of these volumes. At least
> > now thanks
> > > to you
> > > >and teng kee i know exactly where to look.
> > > >Just one question - does the letter extract I
> > posted give an
> > > accurate
> > > >representation of the sutta and the 5
> > vimuttiayatana or not?
> > > >'yes' 'no' or 'sort of' will do fine.
> > > >thanks
> > > >robert
> > >
> > > Here's the extract:
> > > << """ the Anguttara-Nikaya that
> > > mentions 5 VIMUTTI-AYATANA ("Avenues of
> > Liberation"). The 5
> > > include
> > > BHAVANA (meditation) along with listening to
> > Dhamma talks,
> > > giving
> > > Dhamma
> > > talks, reciting Dhamma (e.g. chanting), &
> > reflecting
> > > systematically on
> > > Dhamma. The meaning is that the mind can realize
> > reality (=
> > > Dhamma) &
> > > release itself from clinging during any of these
> > > activities""""" >>
> > >
> > > There is some similarity but one really has to
> > read and study
> > > the entire
> > > sutta which is hard to sum up briefly. But here
> > are some of
> > > the basic points
> > > from Rhys Davids' DN 33 translation:
> > >
> > > 1. when a Master or a reverend fellow disciple
> > teaches the
> > > Norm to a brother
> > >     . . .
> > > 2. while he himself teaching others the Norm in
> > detail . . .
> > > 3. when he is reciting the doctrines of the Norm
> > in detail . .
> > > .
> > > 4. when he applies his thought to the Norm . . .
> > > 5. when he has well grasped some given clue
> > (nimitta) to
> > > concentration,
> > >     has well applied his understanding, has well
> > thought it
> > > out, has well
> > >     penetrated it by intuition (pa~n~naa) . . .
> > >
> > > I tried reading the Pali original with com. and
> > subcom. and
> > > find it a
> > > difficult sutta to understand clearly. All five
> > ayatanas seem
> > > to involve
> > > samadhi and attainment of arahattaphala. aayatana
> > is
> > > understood to mean
> > > efficient cause (kaara.na) acc. to com.
> > >
> > > I hope this will be of some help until you get a
> > hold of your
> > > books in NZ.
> > >
> > > Mike, you wrote: << So I'm off-base looking for
> > ayana (nt.
> > > path) for
> > > 'avenue' rather than aayatana? >>
> > >
> > > Yes, I'm afraid you're off-base here but I can see
> > how you
> > > might associate
> > > 'avenue' with 'way' (ayana as in ekaayana).
> > aayatana has been
> > > translated in
> > > so many different ways that it makes it a hard one
> > to
> > > translate. You can
> > > find the Vimutti Sutta at G.S. iii 15ff.  Thanks
> > for your
> > > input.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> _________________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/