Re: Anyobody know this sutta?

JIM,
This is really helpful. I hate to be a cause of work for you but
really this is a very interesting sutta. The definition of
aayatana as efficient cause in this case is very useful.
thanks
robert

--- Jim Anderson <jimanderson_on@...> wrote:
> Dear Robert, (Mike, see at the end)
>
> >Dear Jim.
> >Thanks Jim.
> >I checked metta.lk - it is one of the few digha suttas NOT
> translated
> >and they have not yrt translated the anguttara at all.
> >Also accesstoinsight have neither the digha or the anguttara
> >translation.
> >I have the patisambhidhimagga translation but that is too
> terse!
> >
> >However, do not worry about it as soon i will be in new
> zealnd and
> >will pick up my copies of these volumes. At least now thanks
> to you
> >and teng kee i know exactly where to look.
> >Just one question - does the letter extract I posted give an
> accurate
> >representation of the sutta and the 5 vimuttiayatana or not?
> >'yes' 'no' or 'sort of' will do fine.
> >thanks
> >robert
>
> Here's the extract:
> << """ the Anguttara-Nikaya that
> mentions 5 VIMUTTI-AYATANA ("Avenues of Liberation"). The 5
> include
> BHAVANA (meditation) along with listening to Dhamma talks,
> giving
> Dhamma
> talks, reciting Dhamma (e.g. chanting), & reflecting
> systematically on
> Dhamma. The meaning is that the mind can realize reality (=
> Dhamma) &
> release itself from clinging during any of these
> activities""""" >>
>
> There is some similarity but one really has to read and study
> the entire
> sutta which is hard to sum up briefly. But here are some of
> the basic points
> from Rhys Davids' DN 33 translation:
>
> 1. when a Master or a reverend fellow disciple teaches the
> Norm to a brother
>     . . .
> 2. while he himself teaching others the Norm in detail . . .
> 3. when he is reciting the doctrines of the Norm in detail . .
> .
> 4. when he applies his thought to the Norm . . .
> 5. when he has well grasped some given clue (nimitta) to
> concentration,
>     has well applied his understanding, has well thought it
> out, has well
>     penetrated it by intuition (pa~n~naa) . . .
>
> I tried reading the Pali original with com. and subcom. and
> find it a
> difficult sutta to understand clearly. All five ayatanas seem
> to involve
> samadhi and attainment of arahattaphala. aayatana is
> understood to mean
> efficient cause (kaara.na) acc. to com.
>
> I hope this will be of some help until you get a hold of your
> books in NZ.
>
> Mike, you wrote: << So I'm off-base looking for ayana (nt.
> path) for
> 'avenue' rather than aayatana? >>
>
> Yes, I'm afraid you're off-base here but I can see how you
> might associate
> 'avenue' with 'way' (ayana as in ekaayana). aayatana has been
> translated in
> so many different ways that it makes it a hard one to
> translate. You can
> find the Vimutti Sutta at G.S. iii 15ff.  Thanks for your
> input.
>
> Best wishes,
> Jim
>
>
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