Re: twofold ta.nhaa

Jim,
Can I just add that I think this is a very worthwhile
undertaking. We can all look and perhaps we won't get a firm
conclusion but maybe we will learn something.
robert
--- Jim Anderson <jimanderson_on@...> wrote:
> Dear Sarah,
>
> >No hurry at all, but when either of you have time, I'm keen
> to hear
> >(or rather have analysed by the 'experts' the Pali
> commentaries
> >relating to those 'tanha' passages discussed earlier on dsg.
> >(Sorry I don't have the exact refs in mind as I write this
> quickly).
>
> Are you thinking of a line by line translation and analysis?
> It would be
> fairly lengthy undertaking but if you really insist we can
> have a go at it
> but with no guarantee of understanding what it's really all
> about. I have
> clipped what I believe to be the relevant passages from the
> three Netti
> commentaries in case you or others would like to look them
> over and maybe
> try to make sense of them or translate while I work on my
> response to Nina's
> latest message.
>
> netti p.87
>
> tattha ta.nhaa duvidhaa: kusalaa pi akusalaa pi.
>
> akusalaa sa.msaaragaaminii, kusalaa apacayagaaminii
> pahaanata.nhaa.
>
> nett-a
>
> tattha kusalaa ti kusaladhammaaramma.naa.
>
> kusala-saddo cettha baahitikasutte (Myanmar MN 2.358 aadayo)
> viya
> anavajjatthe da.t.thabbo.
>
> kasmaa panettha ta.nhaa kusalapariyaayena uddha.taa?
>
> he.t.thaa desanaahaare vipallaasahetubhaavena ta.nha.m
> uddharitvaa tassaa
> vasena sa.mkilesapakkho dassito.
>
> vicittapa.tibhaanataaya pana idhaapi ta.nhaamukheneva
> vodaanapakkha.m
> dassetu.m kusalapariyaayena ta.nhaa uddha.taa.
>
> tattha sa.msaara.m gametiiti sa.msaaragaaminii,
> sa.msaaranaayikaati attho.
>
> apacaya.m nibbaana.m gametiiti apacayagaaminii.
>
> katha.m pana ta.nhaa apacayagaaminiiti? aaha
> ``pahaanata.nhaa''ti.
>
> tada"ngaadippahaanassa hetubhuutaa ta.nhaa.
>
> katha.m pana ekantasaavajjaaya ta.nhaaya kusalabhaavoti?
>
> sevitabbabhaavato.
>
> yathaa ta.nhaa, eva.m maanopi duvidho kusalopi akusalopi, na
> ta.nhaa evaati
> ta.nhaaya nidassanabhaavena maano vutto.
>
> nett-t
>
> 53. kusaladhammaaramma.naati kusaladhamme uddissa
> pavattimatta.m
> sandhaaya vutta.m, na tesa.m aaramma.napaccayata.m idha
> ``kusalaa
> dhammaa''ti lokuttaradhammaana.m adhippetattaa.
>
> na hi kadaaci anupaadaaniyaa dhammaa upaadaanaaramma.naa
> honti.
>
> phaladhamme uddissa pavattaaya ta.nhaaya gahitattaa ``kusala
> ...pe...
> da.t.thabbo''ti vutta.m.
>
> desanaahaareti desanaahaarasampaate.
>
> katha.m pana kusalabhaavoti ``kusalaa''ti vacanamatta.m
> gahetvaa codeti,
> ta~nca nidassanamatta.m da.t.thabba.m, pahaanahetubhaavopissaa
> siyaa
> codakena sampa.ticchitova.
>
> ``maanopi duvidho''tiaadinaa maanassa ca tassaa ta.nhaaya ca
> sevitabbabhaavo akusalaana.m pahaanaaya, kusalaana.m
> uppattiyaa ca
> paccayabhaavato.
>
> nett-v
>
> tattha tatthaati tasmi.m ``arakkhitena
> cittenaa''tiaadisuttatthe
> desanaahaarasampaatena sa.mva.n.nite akusaladhamme
> ``ta.nhaa''ti
> niddhaaritaa sabbata.nhaa.
>
> kusalaapiiti catubhuumake kusale uddissa pavattaa ta.nhaapi.
>
> akusalaapii ti akusaladhamme uddissa pavattaa ta.nhaapiiti
> duvidhaa hotiiti
> vicayitabbaa. tena vutta.m .tiikaaya.m --
> ``kusaladhammaaramma.naati
> kusaladhamme uddissa pavattamatta.m sandhaaya vutta.m, na
> tesa.m
> aaramma.napaccayata.m, idha `kusalaa dhammaa'ti
> lokuttaradhammaanampi
> adhippetattaa''ti.
>
> ``kusalaa  ta.nhaa ki.mgaaminii, akusalaa ta.nhaa ki.m
> gaaminii''ti
> pucchitabbattaa ``akusalaa sa.msaaragaaminii''tiaadi vutta.m.
>
> atha vaa ``katamo kusalaakusalata.nhaana.m viseso''ti
> pucchitabbattaa
> ``akusalaa sa.msaaragaaminii''tiaadi vutta.m.
>
> ``ta.nhaa naama sa.msaaragaaminii hotu, katha.m
> apacayagaaminii''ti
> vattabbattaa ``pahaanata.nhaa''ti vutta.m, pahaanassa
> hetubhuutaa ta.nhaa
> pahaanata.nhaati attho, pahaatabbata.nha.m aagamma ya.m
> pahaana.m
> pavattetabba.m, tena pavattetabbena pahaanena apacaya.m
> gacchatiiti vutta.m
> hoti.
>
> ``ki.m pana ta.nhaayeva kusalaakusalaati dubbidhaa, udaahu
> a~n~nopi
> kusalaakusalaati dubbidho''ti vattabbattaa ``maanopii''tiaadi
> vutta.m.
> ``katamo maano kusalo, katamo maano akusalo''ti
> pucchitabbattaa ``ya.m
> maana.m nissaaya maana.m pajahati, aya.m maano kusalo.
>
> yo pana maano dukkha.m nibbattayati, aya.m maano akusalo''ti
> vutta.m.
>
> tattha ya.m maana.m ...pe... kusaloti ya.m maana.m nissaaya
> upanissaaya
> pahaana.m pavattita.m, tena pahaanena santaane
> uppajjanaaraha.m maana.m
> pajahati, aya.m upanissayapaccayabhuuto maano phaluupacaarena
> kusalo.
>
> yo pana ...pe... akusaloti yo pana maano parahi.msanaadivasena
> pavattamaano
> hutvaa attano ca parassa ca dukkha.m nibbattayati, aya.m maano
> akusaloti
> vicayitvaa veditabbo.
>
> ``sa.msaaraapacayagaaminiisu taasu ta.nhaasu katamaa
> apacayagaaminii
> ta.nhaa kusalaa''ti pucchitabbattaa ``kusalaa''ti vuttaaya
> ta.nhaaya
> saruupa.m dassetu.m ``tattha ya.m nekkhammasita''ntiaadi
> vutta.m.
>
> tatthaati taasu sa.msaaraapacayagaaminiisu ta.nhaabhuutaasu
> kusalaakusalaasu. aya.m ta.nhaa kusalaati sambandho.
>
> ``ariyaa puggalaa santa.m aayatana.m ya.m ariyaphaladhamma.m
> sacchikatvaa
> upasampajja viharanti, ta.m aayatana.m ariyaphaladhamma.m
> aha.m kudaassu
> sacchikatvaa viharissa''nti patthayantassa tassa kulaputtassa
> tasmi.m
> ariyaphale pihaa uppajjati, pihaapaccayaa ya.m domanassa.m
> uppajjati, ida.m
> domanassa.m ``nekkhammasita''nti vuccati.
>
> aya.m ariyaphale pihaasa"nkhaataa ta.nhaa kusalaa anavajjaa
> anavajjaariyaphaladhamma.m uddissa pavattattaati
> vicayitabba.m.
>
>
>
>
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