Re: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa

Dear Piya,

My emphasis is the Pali in the service of understanding... but,
sometimes when you read the Pali, it raises questions about the
decisions of another translator. What we "understand" can be
different than somebody else, and then, the Pali "grammar" can be the
only way to understand propoerly.
My first intuition was to see this sentence as bhikkhu Bodhi did
(since this kind of phrasing is common in English translations of the
Pali texts), but then I had some doubts, whether it is a correct
translation. In the Sanskrit, the locative cannot be taken as "as" as
well.
Anyway, thanks for the attention and help,
have a wonderful weekend,
Keren.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Piya Tan" <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Keren,
>
> Interesting issue here, but it really depends on where your
emphasis is.
> Are you in for purely Pali grammar, or Pal in the service of
understanding
> the Dharma. Of course, most of them time, the two happily coincide,
but
> there are occasions like this when the mettle of a translator or
reader is
> tested.
>
> The answer lies in understanding the Malunkyaputta Teaching given in
> the Malunkyaputta Sutta (S 35.95).
>
> The translator or reader has now to decide how best to express it in
> English so that he (and others hopefully) will understand the
correct
> import, based on various internal references like this.
>
> Piya Tan
>
>
> On 12 Apr 2007 15:41:47 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@...> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Piya,
> >
> > Thanks, but it seems to me that Contemplating the body as the
body,
> > is not the same as saying "contemplating the body in the body".
> > But, is Locative can be taken as implying "as"?
> > Keren.
> >
> > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
> > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Keren,
> > >
> > > I think this idiom is also found in the Satipatthana Suttas, for
> > example:
> > >
> > > kaaye kaayaanupassii ...pe... (contemplating the body in the
body,
> > etc)
> > >
> > > This is a literal translation. Idiomatically, we can render
this as:
> > >
> > > "Contemplating the body as the body..."
> > >
> > > I have written a bit about (Dharma aspect, not so much Pali
> > grammar) in
> > > *the Satipatthana Suttas. (Introduction 3.7a)*
> > > See this at http://dharmafarer.googlepages.com
> > > under "Majjhima Nikaya"
> > >
> > > Piya
> > >
> > >
> > > On 12 Apr 2007 02:50:10 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello everyone,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for bothering you again and again, but I don't have
anyone
> > else to
> > > > ask...
> > > >
> > > > In MN III.29-30: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa
> > > >
> > > > di.t.the: seen in locative
> > > > vaaditaa: speaker (Nominative sg of vaaditar)
> > > >
> > > > Bhikkhu Bodhi translate like this: "Telling the seen as it is
> > seen".
> > > >
> > > > I wanted to ask if a locative can be transles as "as"?
> > > > It seems that the accurate trandlation should be:
> > > > "in case of the seen, he is a spkeaker about the seen"
> > or "concerning
> > > > the seen, he speak about the seen".
> > > >
> > > > However, in these translations there is no reference to
speaking
> > about
> > > > the seen, as it is seen, which makes this sentence different.
> > What do
> > > > you think?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Have a wonderful day,
> > > > Keren [:D]
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Piya Tan" <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Keren,
>
> Interesting issue here, but it really depends on where your
emphasis is.
> Are you in for purely Pali grammar, or Pal in the service of
understanding
> the Dharma. Of course, most of them time, the two happily coincide,
but
> there are occasions like this when the mettle of a translator or
reader is
> tested.
>
> The answer lies in understanding the Malunkyaputta Teaching given in
> the Malunkyaputta Sutta (S 35.95).
>
> The translator or reader has now to decide how best to express it in
> English so that he (and others hopefully) will understand the
correct
> import, based on various internal references like this.
>
> Piya Tan
>
>
> On 12 Apr 2007 15:41:47 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@...> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Piya,
> >
> > Thanks, but it seems to me that Contemplating the body as the
body,
> > is not the same as saying "contemplating the body in the body".
> > But, is Locative can be taken as implying "as"?
> > Keren.
> >
> > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
> > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Keren,
> > >
> > > I think this idiom is also found in the Satipatthana Suttas, for
> > example:
> > >
> > > kaaye kaayaanupassii ...pe... (contemplating the body in the
body,
> > etc)
> > >
> > > This is a literal translation. Idiomatically, we can render
this as:
> > >
> > > "Contemplating the body as the body..."
> > >
> > > I have written a bit about (Dharma aspect, not so much Pali
> > grammar) in
> > > *the Satipatthana Suttas. (Introduction 3.7a)*
> > > See this at http://dharmafarer.googlepages.com
> > > under "Majjhima Nikaya"
> > >
> > > Piya
> > >
> > >
> > > On 12 Apr 2007 02:50:10 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello everyone,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for bothering you again and again, but I don't have
anyone
> > else to
> > > > ask...
> > > >
> > > > In MN III.29-30: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa
> > > >
> > > > di.t.the: seen in locative
> > > > vaaditaa: speaker (Nominative sg of vaaditar)
> > > >
> > > > Bhikkhu Bodhi translate like this: "Telling the seen as it is
> > seen".
> > > >
> > > > I wanted to ask if a locative can be transles as "as"?
> > > > It seems that the accurate trandlation should be:
> > > > "in case of the seen, he is a spkeaker about the seen"
> > or "concerning
> > > > the seen, he speak about the seen".
> > > >
> > > > However, in these translations there is no reference to
speaking
> > about
> > > > the seen, as it is seen, which makes this sentence different.
> > What do
> > > > you think?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Have a wonderful day,
> > > > Keren [:D]
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>