Re: Puzzling passage

Dear Piya and friends,

Generally, `knowledge and vision' is the ability, the state of clarity
enabling one to see even hidden things clearly,
So the image of a transparent gem.
It is both `higher than Jhanaa', if the absorptions are taken
as `pleasant abiding in the here and now'
And 'less than the absorptions' if they are used as a way of
reaching full enlightenment.
So, obviously, it is not the Sama Nana – knowledge of liberation.

The colors at old were often associated with natural phenomena.
Pandu is earthen colors, the word used even today to denote the
dyeing of robes: Various natural hues of Brown, mostly.

Just as Lohitam is both `Blood' and the color of `Red',
Pittam is `Bile' and it's shades, mostly `light green', off yellow.

Thanks and Metta
Jothiko Bhikkhu

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
>
> Friends in Dharma,
>
> There is an interesting puzzling passage in the
> Saaman~n~aphala Sutta (D 2) that refers to the
> "knowledge and vision" or insight into the true
> nature of the body and mind. This is the passage:
>
> "Maharajah, just as if there were a beautiful
> beryl gem of the purest water­eight faceted, well
> polished, clear, limpid, consummate in all its
> aspects, and going through the middle of it was a
> blue, yellow, red, white, or brown thread..."
> (D 2.84/1:76)
>
> "Going through...etc" = tatra vutam. niilam. vaa
> piitam. vaa lohitam. vaa odaatam. vaa
> pan.d.u,suttam. vaa. Rhys Davids tr piitam. here
> as "orange-coloured," and pan.d.u as "yellow"
> (D:RD 1:87), while Bodhi has as "yellow" and
> "brown" respectively (1989:44). Both piita and
> pan.d.u sometimes refer to "yellow." SED
> (Monier-Williams) def pan.d.u as "yellowish
> white, white, pale." Comys offer no explanation.
> The first 4 colours are those of the colour
> kasin.a meditations: see Mahaa Parinibbaana Sutta (D 16.3.29-
32/2:110 f)
>
> DA explains that "the beryl gem is like the
> material body, and the thread running through it
> is like insight knowledge" (which DAT corrects to
> "insight consciousness," vipassanaa vin~n~aan.a).
>
> I have two problems:
> (1) The translation of piita and pan.d.u in this
> context: both seem to mean "yellow."
> (2) What do these colours mean or refer to? If we
> follow DA, the coloured thread probably refers to
> the other senses, or more likely the other four
> (ie the formless) aggregates. In that case, I
> think we have to translate pan.d.u as meaning
> "pale" so that we have "pale white," but there is
> neither canonical nor traditional support for this.
>
> Can anyone help?
>
> Piya Tan
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>