Thanks, venerable Jothiko, for your kind response.

It helps me to think more deeply on the matter.

Piya Tan

On 11/13/06, joseph <jothiko@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Piya and friends,
>
> Generally, `knowledge and vision' is the ability, the state of clarity
> enabling one to see even hidden things clearly,
> So the image of a transparent gem.
> It is both `higher than Jhanaa', if the absorptions are taken
> as `pleasant abiding in the here and now'
> And 'less than the absorptions' if they are used as a way of
> reaching full enlightenment.
> So, obviously, it is not the Sama Nana � knowledge of liberation.
>
> The colors at old were often associated with natural phenomena.
> Pandu is earthen colors, the word used even today to denote the
> dyeing of robes: Various natural hues of Brown, mostly.
>
> Just as Lohitam is both `Blood' and the color of `Red',
> Pittam is `Bile' and it's shades, mostly `light green', off yellow.
>
> Thanks and Metta
> Jothiko Bhikkhu
>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, Piya Tan
> <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
> >
> > Friends in Dharma,
> >
> > There is an interesting puzzling passage in the
> > Saaman~n~aphala Sutta (D 2) that refers to the
> > "knowledge and vision" or insight into the true
> > nature of the body and mind. This is the passage:
> >
> > "Maharajah, just as if there were a beautiful
> > beryl gem of the purest water�eight faceted, well
> > polished, clear, limpid, consummate in all its
> > aspects, and going through the middle of it was a
> > blue, yellow, red, white, or brown thread..."
> > (D 2.84/1:76)
> >
> > "Going through...etc" = tatra vutam. niilam. vaa
> > piitam. vaa lohitam. vaa odaatam. vaa
> > pan.d.u,suttam. vaa. Rhys Davids tr piitam. here
> > as "orange-coloured," and pan.d.u as "yellow"
> > (D:RD 1:87), while Bodhi has as "yellow" and
> > "brown" respectively (1989:44). Both piita and
> > pan.d.u sometimes refer to "yellow." SED
> > (Monier-Williams) def pan.d.u as "yellowish
> > white, white, pale." Comys offer no explanation.
> > The first 4 colours are those of the colour
> > kasin.a meditations: see Mahaa Parinibbaana Sutta (D 16.3.29-
> 32/2:110 f)
> >
> > DA explains that "the beryl gem is like the
> > material body, and the thread running through it
> > is like insight knowledge" (which DAT corrects to
> > "insight consciousness," vipassanaa vin~n~aan.a).
> >
> > I have two problems:
> > (1) The translation of piita and pan.d.u in this
> > context: both seem to mean "yellow."
> > (2) What do these colours mean or refer to? If we
> > follow DA, the coloured thread probably refers to
> > the other senses, or more likely the other four
> > (ie the formless) aggregates. In that case, I
> > think we have to translate pan.d.u as meaning
> > "pale" so that we have "pale white," but there is
> > neither canonical nor traditional support for this.
> >
> > Can anyone help?
> >
> > Piya Tan
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


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