Dear Bhante,
Soreyyaka is a Burmese reading for Sora.t.thaka < Sanskrit Saura.straka
"coming from Suraat" i.e. the extreme southwest in relation to Saaketaka
mentioned before Sora.t.thaka that is followed by references to Paa.theyyaka
(presumably people living in the west) and people living in the north west
as well as the extreme north west e.g. Alasanda (Alexandria).
Best wishes,
Ole
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Sujato
Sendt: 6. december 2005 06:21
Til:
Pali@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: SV: [Pali] where is Pava?
Dear Ole,
Thanks for that mention. Indeed, my CSCD has 'paaveyyaka' in that
place, so in this case at least it is a Burmese reading. (I wonder
why Malalasekera said that paa.theyyaka was a Burmese reading?). The
Milinda reference associating paa.theyyakaa and the (north)-western
regions is a bit fuzzy. Just before are mentioned Magadha, Saaketa,
and Soreyya, none of which are far West; saaketa is south east of
Saavatthi (i'm not exactly sure where Soreyya is - by the way, does
anyone know where i can access a good online map of Buddhist
India?). This, of course, doesn't prove that the paaveyyakas are not
from the far west, but equally does not prove that they are.
The mention of Saketa certainly matches up with the Timsamatta
paaveyyaka bhikkhus of the Kathinakkhandhaka, who, pausing on the
way to savatthi, spend the vassa at Saketa. It doesn't, however,
seem likely that they stopped there on the way from the west to
Savatthi: they were in a hurry and were hardly likely to veer off to
the south-east. But it is here that the commentary tells us:
Paaveyya.m naama kosalesu pacchimadisaabhaage ra.t.tha.m (Paveyya is
a country to the west of Kosala). As far as i can see, this is the
only explicit reference to a Paaveyya/Paa.theyya in the western
regions, though the references in the Milinda and the
Sattasatikakkhandhaka are certainly compatible with this
interpretation. Thus the only explicit reference to a far
western 'paaveyya' is in a context that makes this description
unlikely.
As a further note, all the commentarial readings i have been able to
track down say 'paaveyyaka'. In addition, the few Skt and Chinese
references i have checked also read 'paavaa', or rather 'paapaa'
(the Chinese usually use the same transcription they use
for 'paapimaa' and similar terms).
The timsamatta paveyyakas also appear at SN 15.13 at Rajagaha, which
is a long way from home if they stem from the far west.
Thus i remain uncertain whether we should accept any
reading 'paa.theyya', and whether we should accept
a 'paaveyya/paa.theyya' to the far west.
yours in directional dukkha,
'Samantamasaaro loko, disaa sabbaa sameritaa...'
Bhante Sujato
--- In
Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ole Holten Pind" <oleholtenpind@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Bhante,
>
> Please notice that Paa.theyyaka is mentioned Mil 331 in the
context of
> northwestern regions. The reading paaveyyaka appears to be
Burmese. In some
> cases it contrasts with paaciina "eastern" and therefore must
denote
> inhabitants of the west. The affix -eyya/eyyaka commonly denotes
inhabitants
> of a particular region or city. There is clearly no Paavaa 3.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ole Pind
>
> _____
>
> Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne
af Bhante
> Sujato
> Sendt: 5. december 2005 10:50
> Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
> Emne: [Pali] where is Pava?
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I'm trying to pin down the stories surrounding the town of Paavaa
> with some more precision. Unfortunately, there seem to be at least
> three 'Pavas':
>
> Paavaa 1. The town of the Mallas, near Kusinara, where the Buddha
> ate his last meal, also where, according to the Suttas, Mahavira
the
> leader of the Jains, met his end.
>
> Paavaa 2. Another Pava, or 'Paavapuuri', near Pataliputta (ie,
south
> of the Ganges), which is where the Svetambara Jains say Mahavira
> passed away. Normally one might be more inclined to accept the
> Jains' own account of the death of their founder; but the Jain
> scriptures are much later than the Pali, and this tradition is in
> any case not shared by all the Jains, so it is unclear whether we
> should favor the Buddhist or the Jain account here.
>
> Paavaa 3. A third Pava, which according to a Pali commentary
> (where???), is west of Kosala; this might be identified as the
home
> of the 'Paaveyyakas' of the Second Council account in the
> Khandhakas.
>
> The situation is confused by variant readings. De la Vallee
Poisson
> accepted the reading 'patheya' for Paavaa 3, quoting a source that
> claims patheya to be a general term for the western regions,
> including Avanti, etc. (But this might be just a circular argument
> derived from the Khandaka account of the Second Council,
> where 'paaveyyaka/paa.theyyaka' is indeed used in the sense
> of 'those from the western regions'.)
>
> However, the Dictionary Of Pali Proper Names rejects the reading,
> given there as 'Paa.theyyaka', as a peculiarity of the Burmese
> manuscript tradition. This is followed by Horner in her Vinaya
> translation.
>
> The sources available to me occasionally note the commentarial
> mention of a 'Paavaa' that is 'way out west' beyond Savatthi,
> without addressing the problem that this cannot be the same as
> Paavaa 1, featured in the Mahaparinibbana Sutta.
>
> Are there two Paavaas north of the Ganges, or a Paavaa and a
> Patheya, or is the commentarial mention of Paavaa 3 to be
rejected?
> Help!
>
> yours,
>
> Bhante Sujato
>
>
>
>
>
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