Seems like here we have another interesting "anomaly" like aana and aapana, where either can mean in-breath or out-breath, but are usually taken as a compound meaning "breath".
So canonically, at least, I suppose that suraa meraya majja altogether refer to "intoxicating drinks".
Pamaada-.t,.thaana has been controversial to some.
Those who are teetotallers tend to see this compound as meaning "and that which is basis for heedlessness," which would include anything addictive. I'm in favour of this actually, although in drinking societies like the Scots, French and Italians, the following interpretation is more likely:
Those who do drink or who bend the rule, see it as "that are the basis of heedlessness," meaning that "drink but don't get drunk".
Anyway, Ole, I glad you are on board, I have always wanted to deeply thank a living scholar who has contributed to the CPD which started just before I was born. It is a great contribution. Hopefully we can see more fasicles and volumes, even completion in my life time. I only have up to Vol 3.
BTW people might like to note that the earlier editions of the CPD were sponsorede by the Carlsberg Foundation. Wonder if this is the same as the famous beer company?
Sadhu and Sukhi
Piya
--- Ole Holten Pind <
oleholtenpind@...> wrote:
> The early literature seems to corroborate the assumption that suraa
> and
> meraya are kinds of majja, cf. the version of the basic precepts at
> Mahaasudassanasuttanta D II 173 ... majja.m na
> paatabba.m .... paacittiya 327, however, specifies:
> suraamerayapaane
> paacittiya.m.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ole
>
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
> libris
> Sendt: 13. august 2005 04:05
> Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
> Emne: Re: SV: [Pali] The precepts: abstention from alcohol
>
> Dear Ole,
>
> I wonder if anyone has noted the commentarial glosses something like
> the
> following:
>
> sura = "strong" drink
> meraya = stronger than sura (less water?)
> majja = very "dry" liquor (strongest of them all).
>
> Sorry I do not mention the source (probably DA): hopefully someone
> can.
>
> Sukhi
>
> Piya
>
> --- Ole Holten Pind <oleholtenpind@...> wrote:
>
> > Hello Allan,
> >
> > Just a minor addition to Dmytro's note. Pamaada,t.thaana means
> cause
> > of
> > intoxication, and majja denotes any alcoholic beverage. Suraa and
> > meraya are
> > two kinds of such beverage, as Dmytro explaine. Put together the
> > compound in
> > the context means abstention from the cause of intoxication,
> namely
> > alcohol
> > like suraa and meraya.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Ole Pind
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne
> af
> > Alan
> > McClure
> > Sendt: 12. august 2005 02:58
> > Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
> > Emne: [Pali] The precepts: abstention from alcohol
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > In the Jivaka sutta of the Anguttara Nikaya, we have the case of
> > abstention
> > from alcohol discussed. The relevant section is:
> >
> > yato kho, jiivaka, upaasako paa.naatipaataa pa.tivirato hoti.
> > adinnaadaanaa
> > pa.tivirato hoti, kaamesu micchaacaaraa pa.tivirato hoti,
> > musaavaadaa
> > pa.tivirato hoti, suraamerayamajjapamaadatthaanaa pa.tivirato
> hoti;
> >
> > ettaavataa kho, jiivaka, upaasako siilavaa hotii''ti.
> >
> > Understanding that pa.tivirato means "abstaining from," I am
> trying
> > to
> > understand what it is, in fact, that should be abstained from in
> the
> > case of
> >
> > alcohol.
> >
> > The particular word in question is:
> > suraamerayamajjapamaadatthaanaa
> >
> > I am not sure what type of compound this is, so I am not able to
> > decipher
> > its meaning, though I can see the components of "rum and spirits,
>
> > intoxicants," etc.
> >
> > So, is it indeed the case that this compound is refering to the
> > abstention
> > from:
> >
> > "alcohols, spirits and intoxicants [that lead to] heedlessness"
> >
> > or abstention from:
> >
> > "alcohols, spirits and intoxicants [to the point of]
> heedlessness."
> >
> > I appreciate your knowledge, as the differences between the
> various
> >
> > compounds are generally still beyond me.
> >
> > Metta,
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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